Kollel is not a default option; if you're too lazy or dumb to do anything else, heck why not roll out the rich father in law and let him support you? Kollel is for those individuals who are committed to sacrificing material comforts for the sake of learning. I believe long term kollel should be confined to those who genuinely want to be rabbis or are truly gifted enough to make contributions to the Jewish people through learning. Somewhere along the line young bochurim have gotten the message that working hard to support your family is old hat, why go to that effort if you can sit back and live off the labors of your parents?Read the whole thing.
On a separate note, here's a comment my sister-in-law (SIL) wrote on a (very worthwhile) Orthomom post a few months ago which is highly relevant:
It's not that Black and white :)
Kollel doesn't necessarily mean that:
- the husband learns Torah all day for the rest of his life and doesn't work at all
- they get money from their parents
- the wife doesn't work
My husband learns full time in yeshiva and we DO NOT get support from anyone. I work full time and my husband has a few side jobs. We live very simply. My sisters' husbands who are also in Kollel both work very hard to bring in income. No one I know is planning to be in kollel forever. Many men who are in kollel are also in school at night or studying for their CPAs, LSATs, etc. so they can work when they feel that it is time. (Even in Lakewood, most people learn for about five years in kollel.) It isn't true that everyone learns in kollel, regardless of their ability to do so. Trying to learn all day, if you can't, can be very demoralizing and most guys wouldn't subject themselves to it. People naturally like to feel productive.
There is a whole range of situations. Some kollel families are self-supporting. Some kollel families get help with rent. Some kollel families are fully supported for a few years. Very few people stay in kollel for life and are being supported by their own fathers-in-law who are also still in kollel. Do you know anyone like that? And if someone has the finances available, he could choose to fully support his children.
The worst thing is that parents feel pressured to agree to support in order to get their daughters married off, even if they can't afford it. Really, if a girl wants to marry a kollel guy, she should make sure to have a job with good earning potential. (Um... speech therapist?)And when they have kids, they should pray for an amazing babysitter.
Be a barbarian it is cheaper, more entertaining and spiritually fulfilling.
ReplyDeleteall this talk about these costs associated with shidduchim and whatever, i haven't seen anyone talk about paying for dates. i find it interesting that out of all this talk about the girls and guys looking for fat bank accounts, noone has mentioned anything about who's paying for all these dates that these young couples go on. does any parent tell their kid how much to spend on a date or which places they can eat at? the only reason i find this so interesting is that i know a really yeshivish guy that's shidduch dating and he told me that the guys in his yeshiva find it wierd when girls bring pocketbooks on dates. the general assumption is that the girl should have no reason to bring a bag with her cuz she not gonna answer her cellphone or apply more makeup during a date, and she certainly isn't paying for anything. now think about how when this girl goes on a couple of dates. ok, maybe the first date was a nice cheap date cuz they went to a hotel lounge and the girl didn't want anything to drink (or she decides she'll get a $5 bottle of water, i dunno which is worse.) but then they do something that's a little more money, and maybe they've already gone out to dinner but basically, besides time and emotions being invested in dating (the shidduch scene), you have this money. and you have girls that can walk out of a date, if with nothing else, than a free dinner, and free dinner is certainly not the reason people go on dates. therefore, i propose that the yeshivish community start splitting the cost of dates, in order to promote a more balanced and responsible approach to the spending of money in regards to dating. maybe if yeshivish young adults are made to realize that they're both (male and female) equally responsible for their entertaining eachother's company before they're married, they will be able to see the kal v'chomer that all the more so after they are married. and even better, maybe it could have a trickle down effect into how wedding arrangements are dealt with and the elimination of $100 sheva brochos. (and this isn't coming from some random cheapo! believe me, if i could afford to take girls out to la maraise every night, i would probably be there right now.)
ReplyDeleteWow. Awesome post by SIL.
ReplyDeleteKM - I thought so too.
ReplyDeleteOzzie - that's quite possibly true...
MordyS - Dude! La Marais... eh. Not a fan. And I'm not sure I agree with you on the splitting of costs - but I think that the structure of dates (consistently eating at fancy restaurants) is ridiculous and wasteful.
> ...that the guys in his yeshiva find it wierd when girls bring pocketbooks on dates.
ReplyDeleteThe guys in his yeshiva are going to have to learn that women do not need any reason whatsoever to take their pocketbooks whereever they go.
Call it a learning process.
:)
I won't want dating daughter of mine to leave the house without her driver's license and some money or a credit card to pay a cab if needed.
ReplyDeleteJust because the guy wears a kippah, doesn't mean you should check common sense at the door. A girl should have a way to get home by herself if things get ugly. And, yes, even with frum guys, things have and can get ugly.
So, ladies, take along your pocketbooks.
SL - I agree. A friend who was here on Shabbos said that when she was dating, she would take $20 and a credit card, just in case. And we know a couple people who have had to use that cash. I think Mordy's point is simply that girls should chip in. (Not sure if I agree.)
ReplyDeletemy real point is that jews should stop being retards. i'm sorry folks, but this weekend has got my antisemite sentiment turned up real high. monsey will do that to you sometimes.
ReplyDeletesephardilady: my dad told me the same thing when i started dating. it's also basic common sense.
ReplyDeleteMordy - Funny. I was just thinking as we were taking a walk here in KGH how (surprisingly for NY) the Jews are so nice. You should move here next year. :)
ReplyDelete