The discussions going on all over the J-blogosphere are nothing short of disheartening, and to that I have little to add that hasn't been said already. One point I would like to make, however, is about the side question of whether or not this is more of a "Modern Orthodox" problem than everybody else.
Personally, I agree more with Sephardi Lady than Harry Maryles that it is not just an MO issue, but I do think that there is a large difference in the causes that bring this problem about between the communities. It's almost as if the response people had to kids who were "off-the-derech" was to take things to the other extreme... and in the wrong communities. A decade ago, and continuing on through today, we see teens in yeshivish communities who feel like they have little freedom in the community 'rebelling' and doing all kinds of things, including those detailed in the above pieces. The (IMHO correct) response was pioneered by R' Yaakov Horowitz and others to encourage parents to not pressure their children unfairly [among other ideas] to ensure their happiness and discourage their desire to do a lot of the things they were doing.
But for some reason, it seems that parents in Modern Orthodox homes have followed the same ideas... but they should not have. The teens in Modern Orthodox homes are generally not doing drugs/smoking/drinking because they are too pressured, but often because the reverse is true: The rules and standards they are (or are not) held to are simply too loose. Where does a parent get the idea that allowing their teenage son or daughter to go to Miami - unsupervised - is a 'freedom they need'?! That implies to the teen that their parents understand (at least to some extent) what is going on down there, and that they're "okay with it".
At this point, I think most of us know the dangers of parents being too harsh, too tight, too controlling, and pressuring their kids too much. But we must also be aware of the problems that exist on the other end - being too loose, too lax, allowing your kids too much 'freedom' without having to answer for what they're doing... with who, and where. Yes, balance is extremely hard and varies from child to child - but I think that it's plainly obvious to any observer that a lot of these parents don't seem to be anywhere close to achieving a proper one.
It's time to find a better balance - not getting crazily drunk on Purim is probably not a bad place to start.
I wrote something similar to this on my blog. I think it is wrong to blame Modern Orthodoxy as some bloggers have done. Any segement of Orthodoxy is susceptible to these problems as you have expressed.
ReplyDeleteG-d willing when I have a child at the right time I hope to be able to show my child the right way...Thank G-d I came out "okay" but I wonder how my parents did it...it seems so hard
ReplyDeleteFROM THE VIEWPOINT OF A 20 YEAR OLD:
ReplyDeletethis is just an add on to the topic- What goes on in florida over winter break is not just happening there- Ive noticed on facebook that there are a good percentage of middle/highschool kids doing lots of things, that were never even considered when i was in highschool, in thier own town- i see pictures of kids smoking hooka, going to concerts (not tznius at all), smoking, drinkin, all over guys/girls. The bar has deff risen-what used to be considered "bad" is not even a question these days.
If parents would take two minutes to look at thier childrens facebook profile I think they would be shocked at what their kids are doing. Kids do not need all the freedom they want- it is not a good thing!
And this is not only kids in school- i see pictures of people I went to school with making out with guys and clubbing- Once you are older its hard to control but I wonder what makes people go off and do these things??
Also parents should realize that if they send thier kid to yeshiva/seminary in israel and the kid is partyin it up in thier hometown/vacation there is a good chance that they will be wasting thier 15,000$ by sending them away so that they can party totally unsupervised. Kids need to prove to thier parents that they can be trusted. My father said something to me before I left to Israel for my year -"dont do something that will cost me 15000-Never mind dont do something that will then cost YOU 15,000$"- Smart advice and not that I would have done anything it made me realize how I need to be responsible for my own actions- Parents: when kids do stuff that you dont allow it needs to be punished not just forgotten about-if there is no punishment then there is no reason not to do it again.
You got that right. Damn skippy there was a balance.
ReplyDeleteEqual parts respect for who and what you are and where you come from along with pure unadulturated fear for what would happen if I got cought.
-->not getting crazily drunk on Purim is probably not a bad place to start
ReplyDeleteSeriously, especially if you're a crier when you're drunk.
so true, children need both bounderies and freedom
ReplyDeleteMy experiences confirm your words, Ezzie (sadly). Too much to say, and yet it's all been said.
ReplyDeleteJewboy - My only real addition here was that MO and UO need to compensate in different ways... and that what an MO parent might see is needed for their yeshivish next door neighbor is NOT what is needed for their own kid. Your post was excellent.
ReplyDeleteFS - Amen.
C! - I may repost some of that, thanks...! Great, great comment.
G - Heh - well put. And LOL.
LVNSM - Yep.
TNSPR - ___ ;)
Great post. Balance is the key to life, and also incredibly difficult to find.
ReplyDeleteI think the problem in many homes (note that I'm not specifying any derech of Judaism here, because I think it's a universal issue) is that parents want their kids to be "happy" and kids really take advantage of that. The truth is, kids are happy when they feel that their parents care about them, and that includes disciplining them at times. I came from a very lenient home where there were few rules and while I happened to be a fairly decent kid, I didn't feel like my parents particularly cared what I was up to, as long as I seemed happy on the outside (and my grades stayed good, which they generally did and by the time they didn't, I hid it from my parents). Discipline, rules and attention go a long way towards a healthy relationship - trying to make kids happy by letting them get away with whatever they want sends the message that there is no place for respect for parents in a home, that children at the ones who rule and that happiness comes from having everything one desires. And that teaches very little about real life.
I also tend to agree with me, and agree with your comments to.
ReplyDeleteWith all things in life, one must strike a balance. But what happens when everything is so upsidedown is that people don't even know where the "middle" is. Allowing your children to vacation with peers, unsupervised is crazy!
We are Modern Orthodox, whatever that means, and our children will be vacationing only with us (and we won't be vacationing in any frum hot spots).
Purim Sameach.
I'm with you sephardi lady, ( I am actually a sephardi lady).
ReplyDeleteShoshana - There's a great story about that... remind me to tell you one day.
ReplyDeleteSL - Exactly.