Pages

Friday, August 17, 2007

"Secular Temptations Lure Orthodox Youth"

That's the title of today's article in the Times-Record Herald, which discusses the long-growing phenomenon of frum kids in the Catskills drinking, smoking marijuana, and in general doing reckless and dangerous activity.

"Inside the pool hall and spilling out into the street were hundreds of frum (religious) boys and girls hanging out, cavorting, drinking, and snorting drugs," Halpert wrote in a letter that has become the hottest topic on Orthodox Jewish Web sites and blogs.

In a phone interview, Halpert said, "I could clearly see that there was drug paraphernalia changing hands. I've seen a lot of things in my community, but I've never seen anything like this."

Most say the drug use was limited to marijuana.

Boys and girls were making out; girls had taken off long, traditional skirts to reveal shorter ones and most had been drinking alcohol, eyewitnesses said.

"This sort of stuff is unheard of in our society until recently," said Judah Eckstein, founder of the Jewish news Web site Yeshiva World. "It's against Jewish law."

A shoving match broke out between some Jewish elders and bouncers when the elders tried to enter the pool hall's dance club. Monticello police came to the scene around 1:30 a.m., but most of the kids had already been taken away, Halpert said. Police did not charge or arrest anyone. Police Chief Doug Solomon said no evidence of drinking or drug use was found.

I think that one of the most comforting lines in the article is how the "Jewish elders" (gotta love that term, which makes them sound archaic and closed-minded - just see the second comment on the piece) handled the issue:
Jewish community leaders had an emergency meeting with Village of Monticello officials the following week because they were unsure as to how to handle the situation.
This is a far cry from days past when problems were always "handled internally" - this is precisely the type of situation (drugs, heavy underage drinking) that requires the authorities. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

One final note: While the article discusses both the reckless and the religious issues, it seems that they are addressing the two as separate items, even as they address them simultaneously. That's another good and important step, as there is a marked difference between wearing short skirts or kissing a girl and drinking heavily or smoking up. One may be wrong, but the other is dangerous.

14 comments:

  1. and they're off...
    "Mr. Scott, Commence Over-Reaction"
    "Aye, Captain"

    ReplyDelete
  2. Also, I don't believe that it's true that this has never been an issue before. Maybe not so public, but drinking, drugs, and other similar behaviors have been going on in the community for a while.

    ReplyDelete
  3. G - We'll see...!

    Annie - I agree. I think they just ignored the problem... but now it's gotten much worse.

    ReplyDelete
  4. "This sort of stuff is unheard of in our society until recently."

    Um...I'm not sure what he considers "recently", but it was already a problem over 10 years ago, which I know because I know people who were those kids smoking up and making out ten years ago. Just because you ignored a problem for WAY too long doesn't mean that it didn't exist until now! Honestly, does he think that because the various allegations of sexual abuse were swept under the rug until now, that the abuse wasn't happening 30-40 years ago? Does he think that domestic abuse and child abuse don't happen in the frum community because no one will report abusers to the authorities?

    I really, really don't know what to say about people who think like that. I'd call him a fool, but that's giving him too much credit. And we can't afford to be foolish anymore.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Im curious as to why the "Elders" were not allowed into the club? Something sounds a bit off there. Also, although kissing and wearing a short skirt are not dangerous, in the sense, they could be. Especially when there is drinking/snorting involved. There COULD be incidents of date rape, and what about STD's. This stuff could be dangerous, especially coupled with the drinking and drugs.

    However, I dont think that the elders "pushing" their way through and having an altercation with the bouncers, is a good example to show these teens. They need to see that the frum, elders of the community are not hypocrites,going against anything in Jewish law- such as here, making a chilul Hashem.

    On a different note, I think that parents picking their battles with their kids,will help a lot of kids not want to rebel. Let your daughter hang out with a guy, just make rules, such as it has to be under your roof or under your guard. Otherwise shell go and do it, regardless but believe me it wont be supervised and it wont be limited to hanging out. (obviously every child is different and this pertains to only one example).

    ReplyDelete
  6. What makes them "secular" temptations?

    I know, for example, that when I was in high school, kids (yes, kids) got very, very drunk with the rabbis' knowledge on Purim. So is it "secular" because it doesn't happen to be on Purim, or are they, as I suspect, using "secular" as a term for things the elders don't like? It's certainly not the case, as far as I know, that secular people are more likely to use drugs (legal or not) than, for example, Southern Baptists. I've also known more than one Orthodox pothead in my day as well.

    I think they're confusing the issue by introducing the secular/religious axis into an argument where the only relevant ones are safe/unsafe or halakhic/sinful. I think a lot of it has to do with denial that our sweet Jewish children would do such things on their own -- it must be that "secular" culture.

    ReplyDelete
  7. JA - Considering the title is from the paper, not from any of the Jews mentioned in the article, it seems clear that it would be a normal association.

    So is it "secular" because it doesn't happen to be on Purim

    While I think it would be wrong on Purim as well to let kids get very, very drunk (and my Rabbeim in HS specifically kicked us out for that reason), drinking at any other time would have no religious value and therefore be "secular".

    I don't think it's a blaming of secular culture per se, and I think it's simply noting that these are outside of the more sheltered religious environment.

    ReplyDelete
  8. ->I think a lot of it has to do with denial that our sweet Jewish children would do such things on their own -- it must be that "secular" culture.

    Survey says...No.1 answer!!!

    Hence my fear for over-reaction. It's already started in this case:

    "snorting drugs" & "drug paraphernalia changing hands"
    vs.
    Most say the drug use was limited to marijuana and the fact that no evidence of drug use was found by the police.
    Also, "This sort of stuff is unheard of in our society until recently," & "It's against Jewish law" are not statemnts that do a whole lot to solve the problem as they are either so naive as to be commical or the reason that this goes on in the first place.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "snorting drugs" & "drug paraphernalia changing hands"
    vs.
    Most say the drug use was limited to marijuana and the fact that no evidence of drug use was found by the police.


    Yeah, I noticed that as well. I assumed that either the guy has no experience with drugs and sees things and doesn't get what he's seeing and/or uses terms he's heard; or possibly that of the latter, they were handing stuff to one another and he calls it "paraphernalia".

    Also, "This sort of stuff is unheard of in our society until recently," & "It's against Jewish law" are not statemnts that do a whole lot to solve the problem as they are either so naive as to be commical or the reason that this goes on in the first place.

    Amen. It's like when they gave a shiur in my yeshiva about why drugs are assur - I never quite got the point. It just implies that if it weren't, or if the person didn't care, then it would be just fine.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I don't believe any of these are new problems.

    ReplyDelete
  11. >I don't believe any of these are new problems.

    not new, but probably getting worse

    ReplyDelete
  12. 25 years old and counting. Old news. More drugs and promiscuousness. Drugs are the biggie here. So, this is a good pool of readers and commenters, what do you all think are good immediate and long term practical approaches?

    ReplyDelete
  13. I don't think there are any good "immediate" approaches; I think that's the mistake people constantly try to make. Long-term, create a perception shift that girls and boys hanging out in supervised locales isn't the harbinger of evil, and that things like drugs and alcohol are a completely different issue. Treating them as one and the same causes kids to do that as well, and they decide "well, I'm a 'rasha' anyway, might as well live up to it."

    Better parenting, better education, less closed-mindedness in general would all help. Tougher parenting could help. Honestly, there are so many things (part of R' Horowitz' point), it's hard to point to any one of them; it's time to just start doing all of them.

    Better leadership and examples are extremely important.

    ReplyDelete