Excerpts from a real live conversation, and an illustration of the phrase “so open-minded your brain falls out.”
Other Person: ...we could all be energy independent but They are preventing the technology from coming out.
Me: Why would They do that?
OP: To keep us all in our places.
…
OP: Don’t you believe that a group of powerful people like the Found Fathers could shape a vision for the nation by influencing the direction of events and squashing anything that gets in the way?
Me: Um, I suppose… But they’re dead. They can’t influence the present.
OP: But if they passed it down from one generation to another through a secret society?
Me: Have you been reading The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? That kind of thing doesn’t exist.
OP: Have you ever heard of the Freemasons?
Me: Oh I see. Because many of the Founding Fathers were Freemasons, so you’re saying— That’s a stretch.
OP: Well does anyone know what the Freemasons do?
Me: Aren’t they a fraternity for people over college age?
OP: They have billions of dollars and members in the highest offices and nobody knows why they exist. And they’re just carrying out the vision for this country that the Founding Fathers created.
Me: What vision would that be?
OP: To cut us off from nature and bog us down in consumerism—
Me: Nasty people, those Founding Fathers. What motive would they have? And how could they imagine a nation bogged down in consumerism before the industrial revolution?
OP: They had a general idea of what they wanted and it was fitted to the times.
…
Me: I don’t think you need a secret society of powerful people to bog us down in consumerism. I think human greed can do that by itself. The same for the rest of society’s ills. Society moves in waves, not always toward the best or healthiest, but always in tide. You don’t need someone pulling puppet strings – it would probably be impossible to.
OP: Yes – the wave is the national consciousness. And there’s a global consciousness and a racial consciousness too. But it’s the product of environment and factors that can be manipulated by people in the right places…
…
OP: [on a new conspiracy theory] …I believe it—it’s possible.
Me: Do you believe aliens crash-landed at Roswell and that They are covering it up?
OP: Yes.
Me: Then I’m done.
OP: Why – you don’t think aliens could have crash-landed at Roswell?
Me: No. I don’t believe aliens exist.
OP: Why not? You don’t know that they don’t.
Me: I don’t know that they don’t, but I don’t know that they do. I also don’t know that there isn’t a giant invisible spaghetti monster orbiting the sun between Mercury and Venus, but since we can’t sense it physically, nor deduce it logically or mathematically, I conclude that the existence of a giant invisible spaghetti monster is of such a small likeliness as to be negligible and I won’t waste any belief on him. Do you believe there’s a giant spaghetti monster?
OP: It’s possible.
Me: but improbable.
OP: But possible. There are many things out there we can’t measure or explain.
Me: Er… true… But… If there were really aliens nearby, we’d know. We have the SETI array. And the Hubble telescope. And space ships travelling through the solar system to beyond.
OP: You’re assuming the aliens want to be in contact, even after what we did at Roswell. But how do you know what SETI hears or Hubble sees?
Me: I see pictures… um, released by the government agencies… ok, fine, I don’t know. They might be keeping me in a protective bubble while alien civilization buzzes around our planet. All this to keep us bogged down in earthly consumerism, lest we go buy souvenirs from off-planet?
OP: Well, the aliens might be in a parallel dimension…
OK, so it was a thought-provoking weekend.
One thought: the appeal of the conspiracy theory, and do you believe there are conspiracies? Like drug companies secretly trying to prevent cures from being found? Gas companies sabotaging the search for alternative energy? (I don’t believe that one – most gas companies are now “energy companies” and in the search themselves.)
Another thought: What do Freemasons do anyway?
Yet another: Did you know that Hubble photos are doctored for real? Hubble takes black and white photos. The colors are added by humans.
Though #4: Why do we love to think that the military and government are keeping important secrets from us that would vastly improve our lives if we knew them? EG: preventing our access to alien civilization?
A thought: Why are we so convinced that aliens have it better than us?
And a thought question: If you could create a secret society to control the world for the future, what goal would you set for it?
Bad4,
ReplyDeleteYour OP is guilty of more than just extreme open mindedness. Most of OP's statements have been lifted from the plot of a fiction work published in the fairly recent past, or actually two fiction works. The title(s) are niggling at my memory but not quite there yet. Yet another good reason to heed the advice about not believing everything you read.
Open-mindedness means being open to ideas. It has nothing to do with being gullible. One can be gullible and closed-minded (charedim who believe in demons but won't open a book on the documentary hypothesis because they think it's a sin) or not gullible and open-minded (a good scientist.)
ReplyDeleteWhy are we so convinced that aliens have it better than us?
Also, if there are aliens, the universe is old enough that many of them probably are much more advanced than us. If they landed here (which I do NOT believe) then they are certainly more advanced.
I don't know anything about 'Gas companies sabotaging the search for alternative energy', but I do know that it was widely believed when i was a kid (haven't searched for sources myself) that the gas companies were buying up the patents on more gas-efficient engine designs so as to sell more gas. . . . we're talking AFTER the oil crisis of the 1970s.
ReplyDeleteprofk -
ReplyDeleteMight one of those novels be The DaVinci Code?
What do Freemasons do anyway?
ReplyDeleteWell, they call themselves the 'society of secrets'- so I guess you'll have to join, or join the Eastern Star, in order to find out.
Why do we love to think that the military and government are keeping important secrets from us that would vastly improve our lives if we knew them? EG: preventing our access to alien civilization?
Because it helps us cope with the problems in life. After all- it's THEIR fault, not ours, and we can't control it. So we might as well kvetch. :)
ah, that was hilarious! Also, interesting. Basically, Masons support charities that serve people without other options (the Shriners Clinics, for example). That's, um, basically it. They get together and do goofy ceremonies with goofy props and see themselves as a family whose purpose in existence is to help each other be better people, generally through charitable giving. Really; there is nothing else to it. I know; so boring. These guys are not the mysterious They; tell OP to come up with some other group; there are plenty!
ReplyDeleteI believe conspiracies are real and rarely successful. I do think that it makes sense that companies would work in ways that would undermine other competition, but not in conspiratorial ways.
ReplyDeleteWhy can't Hubble take color pics?
Secret goal: Make everyone use common sense. I know, impossible, I know...
Conspiricies beyond somebody's surprise birthday party don't work (and surprise parties don't usually, either) because few groups can agree on what they're trying to do, or even more, HOW to do it, without egos and slipups, and intentional leaks. Do you really thing big corporations could pull it off for long periods, when the salivating media are poking around?
ReplyDeletemy grandfather is a mason. There is absolutely no conspiracy going on at his Masonic lodge. It's a bunch of old Jewish men who meet once a week to wear silly costumes and practice putting on a secular ceremony that emphasizes having good personal ethics by using metaphors taken from stone masonry.
ReplyDeleteAs a general rule for conspiracy theories -- and in actuality, life -- hamotzi mechavero alav haraiya. If the other guy can't bring you solid evidence, you have no reason to believe it.
ReplyDeleteOK, if you want to see something hilarious, thought-provoking, and a little bit disturbing about a conspiracy theory, check this internet documentary by Mark Roberts out: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5004042232637229146
(explicit language warning)
Also, if there are aliens, the universe is old enough that many of them probably are much more advanced than us.
ReplyDeleteThat's a bit of an assumption. After all, we might be the oldest alien race, or just the most advanced. Think of civilization on Earth - oldest doesn't always mean most advanced. And since when are all advancements positive? Being advanced doesn't mean having a better life. Read Asimov. What a terrible lifestyle.