Many years ago, a friend of mine went to discuss a shidduch with his Rosh Yeshiva. He had already met the young woman in question a number of times, and he answered positively in response to all the Rosh Yeshiva’s questions about her. Yet when he was done describing how things were going, he added, “Still, maybe I could do better.”Jonathan Rosenblum has a fantastic piece on Cross-Currents that recently appeared in Mishpacha magazine on the topic of shidduchim. In his article, he touches on some of the issues so many of us have noticed at an ever increasing rate:
Much of the piece is a strong Mussar shmuess to young men who are in the dating realm, and from our experiences in setting people up and simply listening to people discuss dating, every one of his points is all too accurate - predominantly on the male side of the coin, but increasingly on the female side as well.
- The way one views the person they are dating - not if they are good for the person, but if they are "good enough" relative to what the person thinks they can "get".
- The wish to be "swept off one's feet" - and a failure in that regard means a quick 'No'.
- A focus on the negative rather than the positive points of the other person.
- A desire for a perfect composite of wonderful traits seen across a spectrum of people - all in one person.
- The qualities of a good date (particularly the first couple of dates) have little in common with the qualities of a good spouse - good looks and personality vs. ... everything else.
When people used to ask for advice on dating, we would typically offer two simple nuggets of advice:
In recent years, partly due to the reasons cited above, we've felt it necessary to add to the list:
- Be yourself.
- Have fun.
Each of these ideas addresses some of the issues mentioned above. When a person views each date as a do-or-die situation, stress levels are high, each person feels obliged to show all their best qualities as quickly as possible, and every move - both good and bad - is magnified tremendously. This is unnatural and unhealthy to the development of a relationship. With the knowledge that there is another date after the one the person is on, a person can relax and show what they're about - piece by piece, as they would in a normal situation. It reduces the unconcious nervous tics of each that get overly focused on, the abrupt responses to fill silences or to get out a point, and the expectation of being swept off one's feet by allowing a person to build an understanding of their date.
- Approach every date as if there is at least one date after it.
- If something bothers you somewhat, keep going out and don't give it much attention.
Similarly, how many things can you name that bother you about a friend? A family member? How hard would it be for one of your parents to list 10 things about the other that bother them? The question is not if something about a person bothers you, but whether what bothers you matters. This is different for each person, and should be approached accordingly. If you notice something that bothers you on a date, does that mean the person's other traits are just ignored? Assuming that there are other positive traits to the date, continue going out and see if the issue continues to bother you; if it fades, it's probably not all that important. If it's still nagging you, analyze if it matters, discuss it with the person or with people who can give you an insight into it, and determine what to do from there.
A woman whose family I'm extremely close with told me something really interesting shortly after we were married. She was expressing her frustration with guys who refused a second date with her daughter for the simple reason that they were not swept off their feet, and said "You know, the first time I dated my husband, I not only didn't like him, I actually disliked him. The second date, I disliked him. The third date, I just didn't like him. By the fourth date, I actually started to like him." They've been married about 25 years, and two of their (eight) kids are now happily married themselves.
Are there times where a person "knows" it's not for them? Sure. But it is unlikely that such a large percentage of the Orthodox Jewish dating world is made up of experts who can so readily discern that a person has no chance of being right for them. Patience and avoiding a rush to judgment are key factors in marriage and raising children; it would behoove a person who is dating to demonstrate those traits while trying to find a mate with which to raise children of their own.
very wise.
ReplyDeleteWhen a person views each date as a do-or-die situation, stress levels are high, each person feels obliged to show all their best qualities as quickly as possible, and every move - both good and bad - is magnified tremendously. This is unnatural and unhealthy to the development of a relationship.
ReplyDeleteOf course. I agree (not so much on the feeling obliged to show good qualities as much as every behavior being analyzed), but the shidduch system is inherently so awkward and stilted that most of what you've said is much easier said than done.
I think I'm gonna post about this, actually. Way too much to say and I don't want to leave a megillah comment.
VAYEHI BIYMEY SERANDEZ HU SERANDEZ, HAMOLECH MEIBLOG V'AD KGH...
ReplyDeleteI must be slipping, can't believe this wasn't my first comment:
ReplyDeleteMaybe I Could Do Better...maybe, but I doubt it.
--I hereby ask mechila from the reading public that rely upon me not to miss such obvious opportunities to poke fun at the Ba'al HaBlog.
But it is unlikely that such a large percentage of the Orthodox Jewish dating world is made up of experts who can so readily discern that a person has no chance of being right for them.
ReplyDeleteUnderstatement of the year, considering most Orthodox kids' dating experience. :-)
I actually thought the CC article was really good. I'm a little wary of equating the thought "I could do better" with the yetzer hora, but the insight that it's not useful to compare your actual date to an imaginary one is a good one.
Similarly, how many things can you name that bother you about a friend? A family member?...The question is not if something about a person bothers you, but whether what bothers you matters.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everything. This was a fantastic post. But I would like to point out that it's much easier to forgive things that bother you when you already love a person for all their positives, or even just have a positive relationship with them on some close level. When I first become friends with people, I always have this moment of, "this person seems really awesome, there's no way I could see myself ever being bothered by/arguing with them." But, after we become closer, of COURSE there are things that bother me and of COURSE we get into disagreements, etc. But those things always come out after, once we've both let our guards down beyond what initially drew us into friendship.
It's much harder to START a relationship with things bothering you, because if that happened in a natural setting with friends, you might not make such an effort to actually be good friends with the person in the first place.
Of course, I do think that those things tend to come out later because when you're being yourself, you tend to naturally have your best foot forward anyway, which is why I think "be yourself, have fun" is one of the best pieces of advice that you give. But still, Shidduch dating is super unnatural which makes the whole thing more awkward and contrived. You KNOW you're being scrutinized and judged. It just doesn't feel natural.
Perhaps some people rush to judgement because they limit themselves to a very small number of dates...
ReplyDeleteMaybe they're simply moving too fast for themselves...
Squiggle - Thanks.
ReplyDeleteApple - True, which is why I liked this line of Rosenblum's: That shidduchim and marriage have little to do with one another is a given.
At the same time, the more people utilize the small things mentioned here the easier it gets.
G - It took me a few minutes just to get the first one, and I'm still not totally sure...
And heh. Agreed. ;)
JA - Well, I guess depends on your view of having a yetzer. :)
Erachet - Well, that's basically the point: Sure, if there are lots of things that bother you, it probably is going to be a No. But you have to give the relationship a chance to develop, even if it's not "perfect" or "wow", just to get to that point.
And I repeat the line I said to the Apple.
TNSPR - That's probably true as well.
good point, Ezzie. For all the talk in shidduch circles that denies "Hollywood" (or should I say Disney) style romance, it seems that some people really do want to just fall in love at first sight. But then they offer ostensibly rational --even calculating -- reasons to excuse their irrational behavior. The "I could do better" may also be the result of people approaching dating like a job interview. So they can size one date up as the equivalent of $35K and health insurance, but I may be able to get the $50K and paid pension on top of health and dental.
ReplyDeleteGood thoughts. The mentality of "I can do better" comes from viewing marriage as a transaction or the next step in yeshiva rather than being with the person compatible for one's self. The whole attitude toward marriage needs to change, as I think you are trying to say.
ReplyDeleteThe "sweep off my feet" thing is ridiculous and shows the immaturity of the people who feel that way. They should not be dating. To this day my wife will say that after the first few dates she still only thought of me as "Fine." It took her a while to feel like she wanted to marry me. (Now me, I might have been swept off my feet right away, but that's another story:)
Someone once told me that she would go out with someone until she couldn't stand him anymore. I agree that either you begin to like the person more and more as a potential partner, or dislike him. It's rare to stay neutral.
ReplyDeleteAriella - Thanks for the link, and agreed on the job interview point, though the lack of familiarity most daters have with job interviews makes you wonder where it came from. :)
ReplyDeleteI actually thought about comparing it to interviews at one point in the post, so pretty funny.
Jewboy - Yes, exactly - the attitude must change. Sure, sometimes people "know" - I think that was true with myself and Serach - but that is rare and lucky. (Plus, we thought each had flaws, but not enough to outweigh everything else.)
MiI - Heh. That's a good way of putting it, and that's interesting, though I'm not sure it's always true.
Ezzie-Yes, and it's normal to think the other person has flaws. I don't think anyone should go into marriage thinking of their spouse as "the perfect person." He/She might be the perfect person FOR YOU, but no one should expect their spouse to not have any flaws whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteJewboy - Exactly. One friend noted that a factor that may have played a role in his broken engagement was that he later realized she'd thought (at the time of engagement) as him being "perfect".
ReplyDelete