Which comments? Some are okay, some are downright stupidity, IMHO. One of my faves:
"by you questioning what type of picture is causing the problem, indicates some doubt in your mind that if it is a picture of the face itself is no big deal. Keep quiet, and if a person of a stature as of Rav Shechter finds it inapropiate , so be it. Dont start making diukim. Thats all."
I don't have a problem with the call for a boycott, even if I might disagree (hard to tell without an explanation of what was "inappropriate"). Every community can do as it sees fit.
Just today, my lovely sister in law suggested that they would rather not go too far South on Yeshiva break. Too many naked ladies. Her sons are 7, 5, 3, and 2. I really have felt all day like I can't even have a decent conversation with these people anymore. I give up. Boy do I long for the days when you could pick up a gorgeous Chaim Berlin bachur on Purim night dressed up as a woman complete with sexy Shaitel and heels. Usually across the street was the safer place for the pick up.
() = Hebrew words to the preceding translated words, might not be exact in English. [] = Words I'm really lost on the translation of.
29 Teves Erev Rosh Chodesh Shevat [57]68
Our brethren the children of the neighborhood of the Yeshiva,
A number of avreichim of the kollel came to me with pain in their soul (agmas nefesh) because they feel a disgrace (bizayon) on behalf of themselves and on behalf of the yeshiva and on behalf of Torah. A Charedi man who "left Bnei Brak" opened a store on behalf of "Women's Clothing for Religious Guardians (shomros das)". [at 1632 Coney Island Ave.] And there are four large pictures of women's faces that the intention is to pull people's eyes on them, and the avreichim asked him to remove them, and he answered that this is not Bnei Brak. - He "went down" [note: play on opposite of making aliyah], and wants to bring down the flavor (ta'am) of Torah that is among us.
I don't want to elaborate on the details of the brazenness of his answer against b'nei Torah [ba'alei shiur komah - of a high level?], but I ask [? can't see word] that until he removes this "pritzus" from opposite the face of the 'heichal haTorah' [note: Yeshiva], not even one person from the men of our peace (shlomeinu) should cross the fence to enter into that store.
With feelings of embarrassment about the need for this letter, however, because of feelings of fear of honor of those who toil in Torah -
I think that out of all the comments, this one bothered me the most:
If Daas Torah tells us left is right, we must believe it. If the RY posts a letter with grammatical errors, then the errors are correct!
That just reminds me of a Big Brother thing or something. Even Roshei Yeshivot are not perfect. People shouldn't elevate great rabbanim to levels of, well, godliness. They are still human beings who make mistakes and to blindly follow every single thing they say without using your own logic is just really stupid. Yes, you should follow halacha and if you follow a rav then you should follow his psak, but that does not mean that every word out of his mouth is going to be 100% truth. Right is still right, left is still left, there, their, and they're are still three different words and are not interchangeable (EVER), all rules of grammar are still in place, the sky is still blue, the world is still round, water is still wet, and nothing anyone says will ever change that (unless, of course, it is said by God himself).
In short, blindly following people to the point of absolute dependence without thinking logically for yourself is very dangerous!
Ez -Yeah...not the few, IMO, reasonable ones. The vasy majority when I put this up were...frustrating to say the least. Noticed that about the hbrew version also.
iPay -I hear ya, it comes and goes.
Wolf -Ha! Better you than me. I was going to comment but decided not to after seeing the reception you received, really it's just not worth it sometimes.
Shir -I actuallt read that comment as being written w/ a heavy dose of sarcasm...may be projection on my part
This is no difference than the nareshkite goin on in Bet Shemesh. How long till they riot and burn this man's store down?
Since when was it asur to look at a beautiful woman's face? If you see a modestly dressed but pretty woman in the street r u obligated to jump in front of the closest moving bus to avoid her?
This is no difference than the nareshkite goin on in Bet Shemesh. How long till they riot and burn this man's store down?
In all fairness, there is a world of difference. No one is rioting in front of this man's store. No one is breaking into his store and vandalizing his property or destroying his merchandise. They peacefully asked for something and are organizing a boycott until they get it. You (and I) may disagree with the premise, but it is certainly within their rights to do so.
Who are thse "yungelite" that comment on YeshivaWorld anyway? They're so righteous when it comes to Kavod HaTorah and Chumras, but ironically they all use the internet - which I seem to remember being banned a while back.
"In all fairness, there is a world of difference. No one is rioting in front of this man's store. No one is breaking into his store and vandalizing his property or destroying his merchandise. They peacefully asked for something and are organizing a boycott until they get it."
First of all theyre taking too far. These "bochurim" in Flatbush see half naked women on billboards and buses all the time, but a picture of a face wearing a shaitel bothered them sooo much.
I guarantee these were just excited pishers who wanted to get the Rosh Yeshiva riled up and start something where there was no problem.
Which comments? Some are okay, some are downright stupidity, IMHO. One of my faves:
ReplyDelete"by you questioning what type of picture is causing the problem, indicates some doubt in your mind that if it is a picture of the face itself is no big deal. Keep quiet, and if a person of a stature as of Rav Shechter finds it inapropiate , so be it. Dont start making diukim. Thats all."
I don't have a problem with the call for a boycott, even if I might disagree (hard to tell without an explanation of what was "inappropriate"). Every community can do as it sees fit.
BTW, read the letter in its original Hebrew. It's far more interesting and says a slightly different story.
ReplyDeleteJust today, my lovely sister in law suggested that they would rather not go too far South on Yeshiva break. Too many naked ladies. Her sons are 7, 5, 3, and 2. I really have felt all day like I can't even have a decent conversation with these people anymore. I give up. Boy do I long for the days when you could pick up a gorgeous Chaim Berlin bachur on Purim night dressed up as a woman complete with sexy Shaitel and heels. Usually across the street was the safer place for the pick up.
ReplyDeleteThis website....I don't think I should read anything on it anymore. The comments make me really really....aggravated.
ReplyDeleteEzzie - how would you translate it?
ReplyDelete() = Hebrew words to the preceding translated words, might not be exact in English.
ReplyDelete[] = Words I'm really lost on the translation of.
29 Teves Erev Rosh Chodesh Shevat [57]68
Our brethren the children of the neighborhood of the Yeshiva,
A number of avreichim of the kollel came to me with pain in their soul (agmas nefesh) because they feel a disgrace (bizayon) on behalf of themselves and on behalf of the yeshiva and on behalf of Torah. A Charedi man who "left Bnei Brak" opened a store on behalf of "Women's Clothing for Religious Guardians (shomros das)".
[at 1632 Coney Island Ave.]
And there are four large pictures of women's faces that the intention is to pull people's eyes on them, and the avreichim asked him to remove them, and he answered that this is not Bnei Brak. - He "went down" [note: play on opposite of making aliyah], and wants to bring down the flavor (ta'am) of Torah that is among us.
I don't want to elaborate on the details of the brazenness of his answer against b'nei Torah [ba'alei shiur komah - of a high level?], but I ask [? can't see word] that until he removes this "pritzus" from opposite the face of the 'heichal haTorah' [note: Yeshiva], not even one person from the men of our peace (shlomeinu) should cross the fence to enter into that store.
With feelings of embarrassment about the need for this letter, however, because of feelings of fear of honor of those who toil in Torah -
Aharon Moshe Shechter
Ezzie -
ReplyDeleteThanks for the translation. It does tell a different tale. My personal feelings aside, I understand the situation better now.
I'm sorry I got involved in that train wreck.
ReplyDeleteThe Wolf
I think that out of all the comments, this one bothered me the most:
ReplyDeleteIf Daas Torah tells us left is right, we must believe it. If the RY posts a letter with grammatical errors, then the errors are correct!
That just reminds me of a Big Brother thing or something. Even Roshei Yeshivot are not perfect. People shouldn't elevate great rabbanim to levels of, well, godliness. They are still human beings who make mistakes and to blindly follow every single thing they say without using your own logic is just really stupid. Yes, you should follow halacha and if you follow a rav then you should follow his psak, but that does not mean that every word out of his mouth is going to be 100% truth. Right is still right, left is still left, there, their, and they're are still three different words and are not interchangeable (EVER), all rules of grammar are still in place, the sky is still blue, the world is still round, water is still wet, and nothing anyone says will ever change that (unless, of course, it is said by God himself).
In short, blindly following people to the point of absolute dependence without thinking logically for yourself is very dangerous!
Ez
ReplyDelete-Yeah...not the few, IMO, reasonable ones. The vasy majority when I put this up were...frustrating to say the least.
Noticed that about the hbrew version also.
iPay
-I hear ya, it comes and goes.
Wolf
-Ha! Better you than me. I was going to comment but decided not to after seeing the reception you received, really it's just not worth it sometimes.
Shir
-I actuallt read that comment as being written w/ a heavy dose of sarcasm...may be projection on my part
This is no difference than the nareshkite goin on in Bet Shemesh. How long till they riot and burn this man's store down?
ReplyDeleteSince when was it asur to look at a beautiful woman's face? If you see a modestly dressed but pretty woman in the street r u obligated to jump in front of the closest moving bus to avoid her?
This is no difference than the nareshkite goin on in Bet Shemesh. How long till they riot and burn this man's store down?
ReplyDeleteIn all fairness, there is a world of difference. No one is rioting in front of this man's store. No one is breaking into his store and vandalizing his property or destroying his merchandise. They peacefully asked for something and are organizing a boycott until they get it. You (and I) may disagree with the premise, but it is certainly within their rights to do so.
The Wolf
really it's just not worth it sometimes.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I know. I was going to go back and debate the issue, but I quickly re-evaluated it and saw that it wouldn't accomplish anything.
The Wolf
Who are thse "yungelite" that comment on YeshivaWorld anyway? They're so righteous when it comes to Kavod HaTorah and Chumras, but ironically they all use the internet - which I seem to remember being banned a while back.
ReplyDelete"In all fairness, there is a world of difference. No one is rioting in front of this man's store. No one is breaking into his store and vandalizing his property or destroying his merchandise. They peacefully asked for something and are organizing a boycott until they get it."
ReplyDeleteFirst of all theyre taking too far. These "bochurim" in Flatbush see half naked women on billboards and buses all the time, but a picture of a face wearing a shaitel bothered them sooo much.
I guarantee these were just excited pishers who wanted to get the Rosh Yeshiva riled up and start something where there was no problem.
After reading the comments I'm considering adding a brocha in the morning--a thank you for not making me live in Brooklyn.
ReplyDeleteShir
ReplyDelete-I actually read that comment as being written w/ a heavy dose of sarcasm...may be projection on my part
Not Shir! Erachet! (And I corrected your typo from "actuallt" to "actually")
Anyway, I might have thought it sarcastic except for all the other comments made by that person (unless I'm remembering wrong)
gooo: The internet was only banned in Lakewood, and only for people who learn in the yeshiva and who have kids in the schools.
ReplyDeleteProfK
ReplyDelete-Oy l'Brooklyn, Oy l'shchaynah
Erchet
-Re: Editing...Much ubbliged:)
rabbi-my i please go to the bathroom.
ReplyDeletejust to re-iterate Shiras point!
ps what ever happened to Torah she'balpeh?