Do I sound cynical? I’m trying hard to. Because while I could easily speak of all the wonders and grace in this holy system, I’m literally getting sick and tired of it. Just last month, after having seen tremendous signs of Hashgacha (Providence) in how the father of the same girl that my 17 yr. old daughter recently noted seemed like a perfect match for her older brother (and we quickly confirmed upon a little investigation), just “happened” to ride a bus with him and was so impressed by “speaking in learning” with him that he insisted in speaking with friends of ours about considering him for a chassan. But now the word is that his hands are tied since his wife insists on marrying her daughter to a miyuchas (nobly descended) family!
Believe me, that’s just the last straw. It’s been building up since we began to settle in to established Yiddishkeit. So that’s why I chose to write this. It’s a pressure release. Call it airing out my dark side…
Doesn’t G-d realize this “religious” ethic of parents-must-find-their-children’s-soulmate is torture for idealists? It was one thing to want the best of the best in search for my wife and Rebbe. But now also for these so precious, young Yidden about whom I most definitely am handicapped in taking the bull by the horn? People say “you must compromise.” Very nice when you’re speaking for yourself. But what if I steer my boy wrong? Maybe the couple needs to experience the wonder of stumbling upon one another. Maybe he needs to exercise that manly sense of hunting, stalking and catching his prey. Maybe they need to cry a little together in uncertainty over when exactly to tie the knot.
I'm so behind on my BeyondBT reading. Thanks for the heads up to this post. He is so right.
ReplyDeleteWhat is up with the dude telling him he needs therapy? Dude, get over yourself.
ReplyDeleteI wish the dude were aware that a large part of the BT experience is the crashing of the idealism being force-fed during kiruv vs. the realities of the frum community.
And the usage of dude when I really mean "That jerk who should have responded in a more respectful way"
I wish the dude were aware that a large part of the BT experience is the crashing of the idealism being force-fed during kiruv vs. the realities of the frum community.
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Not to get too far off point but...this would seem to be a fault in the kiruv process not the community at large.
Devil's Advocate (bec nobody else will)
Nobody likes to say it but that is why maybe it IS probably a better idea to try and find someone from a similiar background. We can all scream from the hilltops that "it shouldn't matter" and "we all are Jews, right?" but that ignores a very true reality. The reality that legitimate replies are "well, it might" and "so what?".
Is this 100% true, of course not and I do not pretend to understand the feelings that are involved. However, to act like it does not or should not exist is just being silly.
--Using "Yichus" is a cop-out, just say what you really mean.
--Using "Yichus" is a cop-out, just say what you really mean.
ReplyDeleteBut there really are people who are looking for Yichus itself. That's a bit more problematic.
The kiruv process involves the community-at-large. People are trouncing upon each other to have "interested" people as Shabbos guests, where everyone is in their best clothes, and on their best behavior, while the problems in the community are glossed over, if they are even mentioned at all.
ReplyDeletePeople are trouncing upon each other to have "interested" people as Shabbos guests, where everyone is in their best clothes, and on their best behavior,
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People as in kiruv people or people as in everybody?
Not "kiruv professionals," people in the community in general.
ReplyDeleteIn that case the people doing the kiruving should do a better job of letting new BT know what life is really like in the community.
ReplyDeleteThe regular people are just trying to be on their best behavior, as most would be in such a case. It is up to the professional to make sure to make sure that all of the information is presented.
Again, I find fault w/ those in positions of influence.
I was very minimally involved with any kiruv professionals. I was set up with a chavrusa, and I went to her family and her friend's family for Shabboses.
ReplyDeleteDo you suggest some sort of welfare type program where people check in with case workers?
Do you suggest some sort of welfare type program where people check in with case workers?
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not as silly as you imply, good way to deal with things that come up as time goes by instead of simply cutting new members of the community loose to sink or swim.
I think what you're talking about is really having a mentor who is straight-up and honest with people, and makes his/herself available to any BTs with questions/concerns. That's not such an out-there thing to want.
ReplyDeleteSeveral people I know became religious through reading books, and later joined a frum community - how would you deal with that?
ReplyDeleteMaybe this is worthy of a blog in and of itself...
Isn't that called "BeyondBT"?
ReplyDeleteA. There posts are way too long
ReplyDeleteB. There will be no Hebrew in my blogs
C. My titles are WAY better than Beyond BT
D. If anyone suggests that therapy will make you realize that your child should be rejected for a date because you are not the grandchild of a rabbi they will be banned from commenting forever
E. I will post pictures of Elianna
A - Not all of them! That one was awesome.
ReplyDeleteB - Hehe.
C - Hmm, I should mention that to David.
D - Um, I don't think he was viewed too popularly there, either. More fun to make fun of dumb people.
E - I'll call the cops!
Several people I know became religious through reading books, and later joined a frum community - how would you deal with that?
ReplyDeleteHmm. I guess I would hope that people in the community would invite them in and act as mentors/role models, and be able to refer them to rabbinic figures for extra guidance. Or that the people in question would seek out mentors on their own ...?
Several people I know became religious through reading books, and later joined a frum community - how would you deal with that?
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I honestly have no idea, that's the whole point. The general community at large either does not know or is not concerned with how to deal with such things.
I don't know that they should.
C - Hmm, I should mention that to David.
ReplyDeleteConsider it mentioned!
Diana, your comments are appreciated. (I don't write the titles at Beyond BT but I do at Temunot!)
The thing is Beyond BT is truly a group blog. As such, the posts will vary (in tone, content and, unfortunately (sometimes) length). We do encourage our contributors to keep their posts short but it doesn't always happen. No one is ever going to love every post on Beyond BT or even here (myself excluded, most people are a bit down on the sports stuff, huh Ez?). We have an eclectic group of contributors that vary in age, hashkafa, geographic location and everything else that makes people different, thank G-d. This mix is something we are always looking to expand. Diana, interested?
As to the comment moderating, it's a lot more difficult than it looks and determining where to draw the line is something we struggle with. It often is the case, as Ezzie pointed out, that fellow commentors
will self-correct the thread. Nonetheless, it's not something we take lightly.
I don't know if the best way to have responded to a critique that included "Their posts are way to long " wass to provide a long-winded comment but what can I say?
Finally, I spoke to Mark and we agreed that Elianna is very cute but we won't be posting pics, our server can't handle the traffic.
Wow. David Linn is monitoring everything!
ReplyDeleteGosh, come to my house for Shabbos. We do look pretty but I promise you won't get a Disney version of frum life. But obviously people want to make a good impression, for many reasons.
There is a lot to be said, though, for exposing yourself to the everyday aspects of it, too. Some people might be more inspired, not less -- preparing a Shabbos late Thursday night, after putting half a dozen or so kids to bed, is kind of heroic, after all.
Maybe we could have frumternships.
Ron, I buy it regarding your family but I doubt that YOU look pretty.
ReplyDeleteAnd, yes I do monitor everything. So, watch your step Coleman.
Diana
ReplyDeleteIn reference to my comment on the Beyond BT blog:
Please read again why I suggested he should seek professional help. He said he was cracking up mentally, and even wrote that he is slowly becoming inevitably dysfunctional. He said he can’t eat and forget about sleeping.
These are classic symptoms of clinical depression. I have a degree in psychology, and 160 hours of training in counseling. I stand by what I wrote, and I am not hiding behind an anonymous label.
Maybe it was just hyperbole, but then why should we believe anything he said if it’s all exaggeration?
However, I did misinterpret something he said. It seemed to me he said he was not willing to marry his son to a child of “some BT next door,” which I thought was very odd, given that he was so upset about being rejected for “yichus” reasons.
I was corrected, and I’m honestly glad that he never meant to say that (although others. such as Menachem, did ask him to clarify what he meant. Obviously, it was not so crystal clear).
I would ask you to refrain from calling people names, especially when such people are not hiding behind an anonymous moniker as you are. You’re taking me to task for what you see as a disrespectful response by calling me a dude and a jerk?