...in the upcoming presidential election?
This was a topic of much discussion during the weekend past when it was discovered that I have never partaken in the election process, at any level, to this point in my life.
So what sayest thou the noble reading public: To vote or not to vote, that is the question.
--One caveat...I need a reason. This is one of those "Why yeah?" as apposed to "Why not?" things for me. I'll see you in the comments...
No...of course you should not vote...after all, Why Yeah?
ReplyDeleteNo. Because you'll likely vote Republican and NY always votes Democrat... unless Giuliani or Bloomberg some how factor in.
ReplyDeleteIf you have nothing better to do and you accrue some benefit from voting, sure. If not, it's a waste of time, especially in NY.
ReplyDeleteG doesn't live in NY...
ReplyDeletewell where does G live?
ReplyDeleteand if u really wanna have an impact the primary votes are more important - in terms of your vote counting.
mo
ReplyDelete-well, yeah...that's the Q
goo
-a. I won't "likely" vote anyhting seeing as how i have never done so in the past.
b. See below
nephtuli
-a. What kind of a reason is that?
b. See below
sara
-thank you for clarifying.
As for the rest...I AM NOT FROM, DO NOT LIVE IN, HAVE NEVER LIVED IN & GOD WILLING WILL NEVER LIVE IN new york.
now then...
Have you never voted before ever?
ReplyDeleteNot saying that it's a bad thing, I'm just curious.
ReplyDelete-a. What kind of a reason is that?
ReplyDeleteYou feel like you did a civic duty and that gives you pride. Or maybe other people see you vote, so you get pleasure from knowing that other people think you consider voting important.
If you don't care about that stuff, then voting isn't very worthwhile.
That's true in any state.
If you don't vote, you have no right to complain if the guy elected does something you don't like. So if you don't care about, say, American foreign policy as it relates to Israel, then definitely stay home. But if you do care, and you want to be on record as caring, then vote early and vote often. ;-)
ReplyDeleteIf you don't vote, you have no right to complain if the guy elected does something you don't like. So if you don't care about, say, American foreign policy as it relates to Israel, then definitely stay home. But if you do care, and you want to be on record as caring, then vote early and vote often. ;-)
ReplyDeleteI never understood this argument. Why doesn't he have a right to complain if he doesn't vote?
Yes you should vote! You're an intelligent person who actually can read and understand what is being discussed. You certainly must have an opinion on some things! This is your chance to influence something! Even if your candidate doesn't get elected they have to take note of how many didn't vote for them.
ReplyDeleteHere's what most people don't understand . . . voting isn't a privilege, it's a responsibility. If you can vote, then you have to. If you’re not going to vote, then why not just move to some dictatorship where you don’t have the right to vote. The reason why a democracy is so different than a dictatorship is because you can vote, and if you’re not going to vote, then why bother with democracy at all?
ReplyDelete-a. I won't "likely" vote anyhting seeing as how i have never done so in the past.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I thought it was Ezzie posting. And he would "likely" vote Republican.
" If you can vote, then you have to. If you’re not going to vote, then why not just move to some dictatorship where you don’t have the right to vote. The reason why a democracy is so different than a dictatorship is because you can vote, and if you’re not going to vote, then why bother with democracy at all?"
ReplyDeleteJust because you can vote doesnt mean you have to do anything!
If I think both candidates are corrupt and unqualified politicians, I don't think my vote is necessary. The problem is that too many people vote but are clueless about the candidates and their policies.
College kids vote because MTV and Puff Daddy says you have to Rock The Vote.
Or religious rednecks who vote for idiotic issues like Gay Marriage.
Or frum people who vote because they think their candidate will be good for Israel cus their uncle/rabbi told them.
Or people who wont vote for a woman.
I'd rather these people not vote.
And yes, the fact is that this is not a dictatorship and that people can do as they please. Including not vote at all.
Just to correct one point:
ReplyDeleteGoo: I have, to my recollection, voted for 17 Democrats and 4 Republicans since I have been able to vote. (Note: I missed the 2006 vote.)
Apple
ReplyDelete-Ummmmm, what part of "never partaken...at any level" was confusing? Sheesh, a few days with the natives and you lose all those expensive English skills.
Nephtuli
-ok, i hear you. so it's more action based than outcome.
fern/nephtuli
-first i'm not much of a complainer , so no problem their. even so, what if my guy wins how can i complain: He's My Guy(or woman)? so really you can only complain, using this argument, if your guy losses.
princess
-more or less what goo said. My reponsibility(!), please. This is America damnit, I don't have the responsibility to do anything!
goo
-you thought i was ezzie? That I, EYE, was ezzie?! Of all the no good, low down...
Hi Mrs. Goldish!
**deleted comments**deleted comments**deleted comments**
-::respectfully::Yes, Ma'am
-Ummmmm, what part of "never partaken...at any level" was confusing? Sheesh, a few days with the natives and you lose all those expensive English skills.
ReplyDeleteBlah blah. So I didn't read it so closely. Sue me. :P
-ok, i hear you. so it's more action based than outcome.
ReplyDeleteOf course. Your vote doesn't matter. No presidental election has ever been won by one vote and one vote won't affect the margin of victory.
Oh and also - why have you never voted?
ReplyDeleteI can argue both sides of this, but I'll just add that your vote *can* have a slight impact - not in the election as a whole, but when they sample demographics. When a bloc of people from (say) Chofetz Chaim [registered Dems] in Forest Hills vote Republican, and their measures see "Hmm, this heavily D area was much more evenly split", it gives weight to that demographic among BOTH sides of the aisle, which is, as they say, "Good for the Jews". It's a small impact, but hey, even small impacts make impacts, eh? :)
ReplyDeleteOf course. Your vote doesn't matter. No presidental election has ever been won by one vote and one vote won't affect the margin of victory.
ReplyDeleteThat is a flawed argument.
-Of course. Your vote doesn't matter. No presidental election has ever been won by one vote and one vote won't affect the margin of victory.
ReplyDelete--That is a flawed argument.
============
Wow, I'm convinced.
I just read an article that reports Sen. Obama has a double-digit lead over Sen. Clinton in a survey of the upcoming South Carolina Democratic primary. In that case, South Carolinian supporters of Obama have nothing to worry about and might as well stay home on primary day, because they know their preferred candidate will win.
ReplyDeleteThat's the paradox of elections. We often feel insignificant as individuals, but if none of us voted, there'd be no democracy. It's really just a variant on the old paradox of the heap. Take off a grain of sand, and the heap looks exactly the same. But the heap wouldn't exist without those grains.
And that's why I vote, even if I feel like it's only a symbolic act. The only races for which I don't cast votes are those I know nothing about. I typically don't vote for judges, for example. But I will vote even if I don't feel strongly about what I'm voting for. Because I do feel democracy is important.
Wow, I'm convinced.
ReplyDeleteSarcasm from someone who isn't responsible enough to vote. Ouch.
Vote because it is your democratic prerogative. If you don't take advantage of your right to vote, your actions refelct that you wouldn't really care whether your right to vote was taken away from you.
ReplyDeleteWhy not vote?
--If you say you don't vote because you don't have a stand on the issues and policies, then it's your own duty to get yourself informed, and if you don't want to be informed, then please, go right ahead and don't vote.
--If you say you don't vote because your vote doesn't matter, you should realize that your vote matters just as much as anybody else's. Who wins the elections frequently has less to do with who has more support as it does with who is most able to mobilize his/her support to actually show up on voting day.
-Wow, I'm convinced.
ReplyDelete--Sarcasm from someone who isn't responsible enough to vote. Ouch.
============
Jack,
Oh, I'm sorry. I must have missed the part where you actually explained this "responsibility"
you refer to above.
Kylo/Jackie (and Apple cause she asked point blank and really anbody else who cares)
ReplyDeleteI understand all of the reasons given, excluding Sir Jack who's reasoning was apparently so straight forward that it did not require actual words to get it across and I unfortunately am just not bright enough to glean it w/o such a plebian approach, and they are all valid to one degree or another.
The one thing that I keep running into when going over this is the following: Even taking all that has been said above as givens...I just don't see my vote being of value.
Now I don't mean this in the sense of 'every vote counts', I mean this more along the lines of that I don't think it makes a big difference who wins.
Really, how will my life be impacted depending on who wins? Can I sit here and say that had a different person been President for the last 8 years my life would be that much different than it is right now? I don't know that it would be...other than the price of gas of course.
I'm sure this will change as my station in life changes but for now...
I have trouble understanding how any American who has witnessed the last eight years could possibly believe that whichever candidate wins the presidency won't make much of a difference. But then you probably don't know any soldiers.
ReplyDeleteG - Are you serious? From so many different standpoints, how could you possibly say that?
ReplyDeleteThe tax cuts alone and their impact on the economy has greatly impacted most people's lives in the past 6 years.
Just because you don't actively see a change doesn't mean it's not there. (Hmm, sounds familiar. I think a friend said that to me about six months ago. :) )
Really, how will my life be impacted depending on who wins? Can I sit here and say that had a different person been President for the last 8 years my life would be that much different than it is right now?
ReplyDeleteFair enough. My ninth grade history teacher pointed this out as well. However! Here is a chance for you to look beyond your daled amos and the particulars of your own life and think of the bigger picture of national policy and things that occur in this country even if they don't affect you directly, and to make an informed decision based on that. You're right, G's vote won't necessarily make a difference, but you should at least exercise this chance to think about things on a more national level.
**gets down from soapbox**
I'm not even registered to vote, and I get a lot of flack for it. My opinion: If you're not well informed in the political sense, you have no business voting. I for one, don't like, and don't have the time for politics. The amount of research I would have to do and attention I would have to actually pay to my surroundings is really not worth the weight of my one vote. Please don't stone me.
ReplyDeleteJack,
ReplyDeleteOh, I'm sorry. I must have missed the part where you actually explained this "responsibility"
you refer to above.
I always enjoy debating 12 year-olds.
Can I sit here and say that had a different person been President for the last 8 years my life would be that much different than it is right now?
Do you understand how naive and foolish that makes you sound. I had relatives who used to tell stories about how they never would have believed that their neighbors would have turned upon them. They couldn't believe that Good Germans and Good Poles would be murdered by their fellow countrymen.
That is not rhetoric. That is not hyperbole, it is reality.
If you like letting others make decisions for you and don't care what could happen, than don't vote.
Jack,
ReplyDeleteAll kidding aside, your're arguments may look/sound good but they just don't have any basis in what I said.
Of course if I felt that one of the people running for office would turn on me or cause harm to others I would use the power of the ballot box to try and prevent their election. That's not the point.
The point is that I don't see a huge difference between all of the players, that one will end up causing a hugely different outcome than another. "(T)hey never would have believed that their neighbors would have turned upon them", is exactly the point. There was no way for them to ever know how thing where going to fall out. Given today's system (or then's, i'm not familiar) they would have voted or not voted for such people based on other issues that they viewed as important to them and would have either been fortunate or unfortunate in their decision. Nobody knows about the truly historical fallout in relation to anybody.
So, while your little history lesson my not have been rhetoric or hyperbole it is irrelevant.
"If you like letting others make decisions for you and don't care what could happen, than don't vote."
Granted, this is a fair point. I don't neccessarily agree with it as it pertains to voting and elected officilas in the United States but I see the argument.
"I always enjoy debating 12 year-olds."
Once again your meaning has escaped my grasp. I truly do not know what you're refering to, both in this instance as well as the previous "responsible" comment. Feel free to keep throwing out the one liners, maybe someone else gets them.
If you doubt that individual votes matter, ask Al Gore and the old Jewish ladies in Florida.
ReplyDeleteIf you think that who the president is doesn't impact your life much, you're sort of correct. Our constitution intentionally circumscribed the president's privileges. Perhaps you could make the case that who you vote into Congress matters just as much.
The president's power, by defintion, applies much more to foreign affairs than it does to your life (then again, the veto on stem cell research could actually shape the course of people's lives). Whether terrorism is something that matters to you or whether it's some vaporous entity far away is, I guess, a matter of one's own perspective. Certainly how it should be approached in foreign affairs is a matter of perspective. But, if you believe that terrorism affects your life, then the president has a lot of power over decisions that DO matter to you.
Jack:
ReplyDeleteThat is a flawed argument.
How? Where's the flaw?
If you like letting others make decisions for you and don't care what could happen, than don't vote.
I don't get it. Others will be making the decisions for me regardless. No individual vote can influence a presidential election.
Seriously, the only way to convince someone like me to vote is to show me that voting is some moral duty, or a duty of citizenship. You won't be able to appeal to the benefits of voting, because I don't see any real benefits for me.
Jackie:
If you doubt that individual votes matter, ask Al Gore and the old Jewish ladies in Florida.
Sure.
"Hey Al, if one of those old ladies would have voted for you instead of Pat Buchanan, would it have mattered?"
"Of course not."
"Thanks, that's all I needed."
G:
Of course if I felt that one of the people running for office would turn on me or cause harm to others I would use the power of the ballot box to try and prevent their election. That's not the point.
Even in that situation your vote would be worth next to nothing and probably not worth the effort. The difference is I assume you'd try to get others to vote as well by appealing to their emotions.
The difference is I assume you'd try to get others to vote as well by appealing to their emotions.
ReplyDelete========
Correct.