I noticed over Yom Tov
this piece in the
Jewish Action discussing with seven older, former
rabbonim some of the issues facing Orthodox Jewry today and the transitions within the community over the past half-century. I still haven't read through the whole piece, but this section caught my eye:
Mr. Savitsky: Many people today are claiming that the community rabbi is being replaced by the rosh yeshivah, since more and more she’eilos, questions, are being asked to the rosh yeshivah, and not the rabbi. What do you see as the role of the community rabbi in the years ahead?
The answers varied, with different Rabbis taking different positions on the subjects. It was the final comment that struck me in particular:
Rabbi Schonfeld: Rav Joseph Ber Soloveitchik told us thirty years ago that the tekufah of the rav is [over and that a new] tekufah of the rosh yeshivah was beginning. We didn’t quite understand what he was trying to say [at the time], but we can see it today.
The function of a rosh yeshivah is to teach Torah, to be a model to the community, more than the rabbi is. Oftentimes, a rosh yeshivah is brought in from Israel to be a mesader kiddushin, at an expense to the [parents]. By the following year, the rosh yeshivah forgets the talmid’s name! There are great roshei yeshivah who remain part of the talmid’s life, and those are outstanding people. But the rabbi who lives day and night with the family should not be excluded when it comes to times of joy. It’s not a question of kavod. It’s a question of the function of the rabbi as a servant of the community—an eved Hashem and an eved of Klal Yisrael. Very often, [they are] pushed aside.
The function of a rosh yeshivah is not to get involved in paskening [rendering a rabbinic decision] the she’eilah, unless you ask him. That’s the function of the rabbanim, who know Yoreh Deah. Not that the roshei yeshivah don’t know [it], but their function is to set the mode of life to the talmid. The rabbi’s function is to be involved in the life of the congregation. The daily life; the day-to-day problems. We have to find a modus vivendi of not overlapping each other.
It's worthwhile to read the comments of all of them on the subject (and on breakaway minyanim and on kiruv, which I may write about later), but this last one in particular was interesting. Firstly, do people agree with the split R' Schonfeld has stated? One of the other Rabbonim seemed to disagree somewhat. Second, if you do agree with R' Schonfeld, where does the problem lie in order to fix it - is it the people who seek out the Roshei Yeshiva over the Rabbonim who are not understanding what the functions of each of them are, or should the Roshei Yeshiva be instructing these students to seek out the advice and
psak from their Rabbonim instead of from them? Whatever one feels, what can and should be done about this - or should nothing be done?
That was a very interesting article, as the rabbonim had a lot of intriguing stuff to say. In fact, I found that whole issue interesting.
ReplyDeleteWere you in B-more second days? If so, we missed you as we went out to Frederick.
They did - good stuff...
ReplyDeleteYeah, we were. Heard you were gone, didn't see you above the crowd. :)
there is no formal organizational system in orthodox judaism that could mediate and regulate the roles and powers of various competing forces. so you have the equivalent of a law school professor coming in from another country to adjudicate a local case as a judge. what that does is undermine the already weak and informal authority structure of the local orthodox leadership. people in town have less respect for the rabbi and get accustomed to turning to foreign sources for leadership. I am surprised that the rav would have said anything for publication about this trend - he was usually more circumspect in public statements. it sounds like something he'd say to a talmid in the car on the way to the airport.
ReplyDeleteTzvee - bH they were all willing to be open for the interview, which is why it's so interesting. Certainly it helps that all are older and are not concerned about how people will react to their statements; but perhaps that was how they always were.
ReplyDeleteI think that while on an individual level, people can live with someone who chooses to use the opinion of someone from farther away, the issues start when those opinions are placed over segments of the community as a whole. You start to see a lot of backlash and questioning why the Rav of the community is being ignored for the opinion of people from elsewhere. Unfortunately, this realization only comes into being after it is already a problem.
Wow, I never looked at it that way, but the replacement of community rabbis by roshei yeshiva explains so much -- community rabbis traditionally were much more lenient in rulings, and their Judaism was of the real world. Roshei yeshiva make rulings out of books and live in a different universe from baal habatim.
ReplyDeleteFascinating stuff. It's the first good explanation I've heard or thought of for why Judaism went through such a serious (and unfortunate, in my opinion) shift in the last generation.
JA - Seriously? Never heard this discussion before? Interesting.
ReplyDeleteIt's similar to professors and experts in certain fields dictating policy instead of the people who actually work in them.
ezzie:
ReplyDeleteI'd heard the books-vs-tradition part before, but I attributed it to the huge number of BTs who (not through any falut of their own) didn't know any better. I hadn't heard it spelled out as roshei reshiva vs. community rabbis.
Got it.
ReplyDeleteThe books aspect is not just BTs, but an availability difference. And better education so ppl learn on their own.
Several of the rabbis remain active and are not "former rabbonim." For example, Rabbi Fabian Schonfeld is still the rabbi of Young Israel of Kew Gardens Hills.
ReplyDeleteSorry, that's true. I wrote that glancing at the first few bios.
ReplyDeleteFWIW, R' Schonfeld has handed over most duties at this point, though certainly he still has a very positive impact here.
Anybody who does not see this new dynamic is simply not paying attention...period.
ReplyDeleteFor better or for worse? Who's to say...the fact is that more and more young men spend years and years away from home, away from communities and in yeshiva. It is only natural to turn to the people who you see on a regular basis as the ones who represent the instructors of yiddishkeit.
As for a R"Y being one who is there to teach and bea model whereas a Rav is more able to deal with true life application...again, more and more young men are choosing not to engage in a life outside of what they have found in yeshiva and so fell no connection, and possibly value, to what can be provided by someone from outside the beis medrash walls.
...and IMO, JA's assessment of the impact of this shift is very much correct.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting article. It's an issue I have thought and posted about before...
ReplyDeleteYou're apparently unfamiliar with YIKGH - perhaps your only knowledge is based on what people who daven downstairs on shabbos morning tell you.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Schonfeld speaks on shabbos, gives regular shiurim, and is available in his office every day. His son is also active in the shul, but overall the shul remians dominated by RFS.
G - Anybody who does not see this new dynamic is simply not paying attention...period.
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
It is only natural to turn to the people who you see on a regular basis as the ones who represent the instructors of yiddishkeit.
Understood. Is that good or bad, though?
more and more young men are choosing not to engage in a life outside of what they have found in yeshiva and so fell no connection, and possibly value, to what can be provided by someone from outside the beis medrash walls
Fair point. And is that good or bad?
FH - Common topic, I know, but I liked hearing it from these Rabbonim.
ReplyDeleteAnon - I'm rather familiar, and am under the impression that for the majority of the people who daven there (which includes all the minyanim), they will seek out his son at this point. This is in no way meant as a knock on him - it makes sense that they would go to his son, who comes and speaks to them and with whom they can establish a better relationship. B'H R' Schonfeld is able to continue having a strong positive impact, and he is still the presence simply because of his long-established stature, but I wouldn't call him a dominating force.
Either way, doesn't matter - he's a great man who should continue to have a strong impact on the KGH community.
I'm in full agreement with JA on this.
ReplyDelete...the replacement of community rabbis by roshei yeshiva explains so much -- community rabbis traditionally were much more lenient in rulings, and their Judaism was of the real world. Roshei yeshiva make rulings out of books and live in a different universe from baal habatim.
I would go a step further and say its a terrible idea for Rashei Yeshiva to be communal leaders or replace community Rabbis.
Hardly any of malchei yehuda or yisrael could be considered "Rashei Yeshiva". Rashei Yeshiva and politics usually end up in a mess, and while there will still be the few gedolim who are able to manage both, at the local communal level, the community rabbi in chutz laaretz needs to live in his community, not in the beit midrash.
An interesting post on the topic
ReplyDeletehttp://joshyuter.com/archives/2004/10/rav_vs_rosh_yeshiva.php
As several previous comments reflected, this is the first time I have ever had this puzzling phenomenon explained so well. The “LOR” has been replaced by a “competent halakhic authority” in many circles. By extension, the rebbe/rosh yeshiva has replaced parents in many situations. Basic parenting concerns (like schmutz on the Internet, for example) have to be dressed up as frumkeit for some people to take it more seriously. By no extension can I be defined as “charedi” but I am possibly more careful about what media my children are exposed to (while they attend a “modern” school) than some parents who send their children to the more charedi one. At the same time, though, I can’t find a reasonable explanation for the compounding ignorance I am seeing in some of these schools. It starts off in secular studies and will filter over to limudei kodesh. Without a broad understanding of the world, I feel it is not possible to understand how Judaism fits into any of it.
ReplyDelete