Circle the most grammatically correct sentence:
A) Immediately after collecting the term paper, Dr. Brown assigned a whole
nother report.
B) Immediately after collecting the term paper, Dr. Brown assigned another
whole report.
Okay, I'll admit I'm a bit of a grammar freak. It's not my fault, really. When all my friends were busy melting their brains on Pac-Man, I was competing against my brother in a fast-paced game of Grammar Examiner. Editing skills, spelling, grammar, and punctuation were our after-school "leisure" activities. And, being that we were not informed that it was nerdy to play, we played it. And, might I add, we enjoyed it- thus proving the point that educatoin CAN be fun.
But back to the topic at hand, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WHOLE NOTHER!! I have never met a NOTHER, nor do i wish to! Some rules of grammar can be pardoned in times of dire need, such as ending a sentence with a preposition (though NOT by English professors. I will not mention which college I attend....) Some people, such as Bais Yaakov graduates and pirates, are exempt from grammar rules. However, the prevalence of "a whole nother", even among well-educated and upstanding citizens, is getting on my nerves. Even my father, to whom I've always looked as a grammatical role-model, being that he served as editor of the Yale newspaper for 4 years, has slipped up with the 'nother mistake a few times. Grr!
Of course, my obsession is slightly problematic, in that I dream of moving to Israel, thus raising little Sabra children whose grasp of the English language will undoubtedly be less than appealing. But I guess that's the price I'll have to pay!
Dear reader, please forgive me if I have offended you. (Unless you are an under-educated BY student. Then you must find it in your heart to get up and LEARN something despite your terrible education.) But before writing me off as some fanatic grammarian, think about the future generations, and how their speech might revert back to that of cavemen, if trends such as "a whole nother" are permitted to go unnoticed. Take heed, for the end is near, my friends!
Grammar, punctuation, and spelling errors drive me insane!!!
ReplyDeleteFrom, misplaced, commas, to' unnecessar'y apostrophe's, too simplie maiking stoopid speling errers, it makes me crazy.
However:
"But back to the topic at hand, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WHOLE NOTHER!! I have never met a NOTHER, nor do i wish to!"
Ah, you made a capitalization error! (You missed an "I.") But I shall let it slide, as I assume it was a typo. Very humorous post, I enjoyed thoroughly.
"...being that he served as editor of the Yale newspaper for 4 years..." Using the idiom "being that" is grammatically sloppy. To quote the Lynch Guide to Grammar and Style, it is "A dreadfully overused idiom (probably coming from "it being the case that"), favored by those who want to sound more impressive. Avoid it. Use because, since, or something similarly direct."
ReplyDeleteLOL, at first I though "nother" was a typo and the sentence read "a whole other report." So, I was wasting time examining the difference between "another
ReplyDeletewhole report" and "a whole other report."
While it may be excusable to say "nother" in spoken English, it is unbelievable that it would be written on paper. (!)
I'm also particular about grammar and spelling and while I get there's a certain slang that people speak these days, it does not excuse poor English skills and making up words!
ReplyDeleteI think 'a whole nother' is an American invention.
But think about this: each year the dictionary authorities add and remove words to make it 'relevant' to society today. Various slang and vernacular phrases are added and old ones that are not used or relevant are removed. So who knows, maybe in a few years it will be possible (and a bit sad) to go to dictionary.com and find the word 'nother'.
"And also, I need a girl who can spell. The more I read these profiles, the more I'm losing faith in a bais yaakov education. Seriously girls, come on! 20 y.o. women should know how spell words like exercise, attractive, and intelligent. STOP LAUGHING! I'm serious!!!"
ReplyDeleteThis is an excerpt from my Frumster profile which I think I wrote like a year ago and haven't looked at since. I wasn't kidding. Some of those profiles are hilarious. I remember thinking, "Wow, these girls need serious help." But seriously, I need a girl who can spell.
More like a CAVS nerd
ReplyDeletesheva- grr! sorry it posted twice. computers will one day be the end of me! (note to ezzie- if it's possible to delete one and bring the comments over, that would be great. if you were to do it, i mean. i dont need you explaining how, just do it.) for the sake of simplicity, please post your comments her. thanks.
ReplyDeletesteg- i stand corrected. (i would say that the thought of what you said actually entered my mind at one point, but that would look like i'm trying to defend myself. it really did, though.)
rare find- as you can tell from this response, i'm lazy on the shift key. stupid microsoft word has created a demon with its "automatic capitalization". my sincerest apologies.
baby rabbi- thanks for the constructive criticism. unfortunately, my writing skills leave much to be desired. i went to a bais yaakov, so most of what i know is from my father and that darned computer game. sigh.
mordy- i lost my faith in the general studies of BYs long ago. too bad- all that wasted potential. in my wonderful english comp class in the college for which i profess much love, i have the company of many BY-(un)educated girls. i pity the professor.
oh, and dags- what do you mean, a CAVS nerd?
ReplyDeletewoohoo! i am so tech-savvy. double post is now history. here are the comments from over there:
ReplyDeleteJewish Atheist said...
"A whole nother" is widely used slang. What's the problem? You don't know what they mean?
9/19/2006 02:53:26 PM
Shoshana said...
I admit to using the word "nother" in my speech, but I would never write that way. Some things are just better said than written down.
9/19/2006 03:17:40 PM
sheva7777 said...
I find it very interesting that this bothers you so much. I am also extremely bothered by bad grammar (I hate it when people say " Do you want to come with?"...with what?!?!). However, for some reason "nother" does not bother me. I can't say I use it, but it doesn't really irk me.
This rant is posted twice, so I commented twice.
9/19/2006 03:31:58 PM
Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...
as a linguist, let me point out that another whole and a whole nother are not synonymous:
"I ate another whole apple" means I ate an entire apple in addition to the entire apple i already ate.
"I ate a whole nother apple" means I ate a completely different apple in addition to the apple i already ate.
9/19/2006 08:59:57 PM
I so know what you mean about proper grammar. what gets me is when people use double negatives like 'I didn't say nothing' they don't realize that it means that they said 'something'. Instead they should say 'I didn't say anything.
ReplyDeleteover the summer i happened to overhear an MCO140 class or two. it only reinforced the idea. (but i must add that the avg guy sitting in torah v'daas all day isn't much better around an excel spreadsheet either) i had to hold myself back from cracking up. someone pointed out that the fact that i was there sitting in the back probably made them worse, and i agree, the presence of a guy in the room besides prof f probably did reduce the iqs to a standard i'm confident i won't ever be forced to endure. but hey, maybe by girls just aren't for me. :)
ReplyDeletealso, i wanted to add that it doesn't really bother me when people speak without proper grammar. my reason is because when i listen to someone, i'm trying to learn as much as i can about that person in what might be a very short period of time. i view speech as either a great indicator of intelligence or if someone is good at relating their intelligence with their content, but doesn't present it eloquently, i view it as a great indicator of consciousness. there are very intelligent people who, for whatever reason, either have a rather small vocabulary or just have trouble relating what they have to say in a clear and concise manner. however, there are others who are just not as conscious about the garbage that spews forth from their pie holes and they proceed to litter our audio receptors with utter nonsense. but i'm sure we all know how much we can learn about someone if we listen closely.
ReplyDeleteas to typing/writing incorrectly, i believe there are three reasons. either the person didn't pay enough attention during class, didn't have a teacher worth paying attention to, or pure laziness. my only issue is with the last reason. if someone is trying to relate information or feelings or even something as simple as a grocery list, laziness could prove a lot about how they view what they are writing. aside from journals or diaries or the like, most of what people write/type is for others to view. unless someone has already proved themselves to have not cared too much in school, if one composes a body of words and sentences filled with all kinds of errors and sloppiness, they may be showing how little they care about the subject at hand. and that bothers me. what i find worse is that one might be showing disregard toward the reader as well. if a teacher hands out a test that's photocopies of some hand written scribbles and they expect the student to decipher whatever language it is they just made up, that's showing how much the teacher really cares about the student. obviously the teacher might have a thousand valid reasons as to why they couldn't produce a more presentable test, but that's not the point. the husband that puts together a shopping list for his wife and writes it so wacky that the wife just looks at it and shakes her head may be showing how the husband doesnt truly appreciate his wife to fullest. or maybe i'm just being overly dramatic. i mean, im sitting here in bed typing and im too lazy to use the shift key or apostrophes!
As another proud grammar freak, I relate to your concern 100%. Grammar mistakes absolutely drive me up the wall, and it gives me a sense of fulfillment to know that people agree, and to hear people vent about it. So keep on venting!
ReplyDeleteAnd may I suggest an awesome book for all grammar nerds--Eats, Shoots And Leaves by Lynne Truss. It is a hysterical read, as well as a simple and clear guide to basic rules of grammar that EVERYONE should master.
And may I also point out one of my pet peeves...
"if a teacher hands out a test that's photocopies of some hand written scribbles and they expect the student to decipher whatever language it is they just made up, that's showing how much the teacher really cares about the student."
Other than the strange use of the apostrophe in "that's photocopies," the mistake here is in the disagreement of the singular "A teacher" and the plural "THEY expect" and "THEY just made up." This mistake is becoming extremely common as a result of political correctness. No one wants to say "If a teacher hands out a test, he expects..." because then it sounds like the writer is sexist unless he/she does this awkward he/she thing which is simply just annoying. This mistake is so common that it is almost entirely accepted....and this drives me nuts!! K, sorry to be nerdy, but this post was kind of asking for it.
Quite an entertaining post. I find it interesting that this bothers you, because just recently, I've noticed the same!! While visiting British in-laws, I realized that none of them speak this way at all!! I went to a BY myself,and my mom always criticized my speech.Although, in H.S. we did have an excellent teacher, who picked up on all the nitty grittys of yeshivish speech :) and fought to correct it as much as possible.Great post.
ReplyDeletePobody - I'm so proud you figured it out! :)
ReplyDelete"Circle the sentence which is grammatically correct?"
ReplyDeleteWell, those are certainly poor instructions for a grammar worksheet! The which should be a that, and the sentence is a command and not a question to be punctuated by a question mark.
Yes, another whole is not the correct phrase to substitute for the incorrect a whole nother. To correct the grammatical error, simply use a whole other, that is, drop the n, which is no longer needed once whole splits another and separates the article from the noun.
It might be better, however, to use a different, less idiomatic phrase.
I just came across your post. I'm sure you didn't intend a reference to me, but I happen to be Dr. Brown with a PhD in English. It's not just frum society but the larger society that doesn't really care about correctness. You can find mistakes in ads and signs. My pet peeves are the confusion of it's (it is) for its (possessive form of it) and the mix up of there, their, and they're that is common in college students.
ReplyDeleteWoah. I am a BY grammar/spelling freak.
ReplyDeleteI have had some pretty fantastic grammar teachers all through school. In-town schools, mind you. But that's not even my point.
Over time, I've learnt one important concept. When it comes to grammar, with the exception of professional settings, nobody cares. People don't like sticklers who forever jump in to correct their language. When in midst of a conversation, people don't want to be rudely interrupted with "that's my mother and I, not me and my mother."
It's that simple. Live, and let live.
Also, people tend to sound quite stilted and unapproachable when they insist on speaking like grammar professors. I think that sometimes it’s important to let these things slide. I also think that people trust you more when you (literally) “speak their language.”
That’s not to say that everything is acceptable (I'm definitely with you that there are certain basic standards people should meet) - all I’m saying is to chill out.(And no, “chill out” is actually not proper grammar; it’s slang. But it just proves my point. People like communicating with humans, not computers!) Don’t become neurotic.
Language happens to be one of my strengths. But my math skills are non-existant. So I really try to understand others' failings.
I hope this didn’t come out wrong, please forgive me if it did, but unfortunately I’ve learned the hard way.
Save the high fallutin' vernacular for school and work. And give people a break.
Wishing all of klall yisrael a kesiva v'chasima tova.
I agree with shevy. Everyone should speak basic english, but people who nitpick can sometimes take it way too far. so you do have a point Pobody, but you have to face the fact that people are not perfect, just as your name shows. and it's so true - I find that the people who are awesome at verbal skills usually stink at math!
ReplyDeleteAriella - great point.
ReplyDeleteIn college I started to realize that the secular world has the same spelling/grammar issues that we do. Even one of my professors spelled "independent" as "independant" and insisted that was the proper spelling when corrected!
I'm forever finding words that are improperly spelled in store windows everywhere.
Mordy - Have faith! I know many BY girls who can spell perfectly.
ReplyDeleteGosh, i feel like everyone is ganging up on me! relax, it was meant to be a humorous rant. i did not mean to do any of the following:
ReplyDeletea) insult bais yaakov teachers or students. but sometimes poking fun can get out of hand, i guess. my apologies. (for the record, i'm a "bais yaakov girl", though a bit atypical)
b) give off the attitude that improper grammar is tantamount to stupidity. while it is true that written works should display a higher level than speech, what muscat said above is true. To quote her, "...the way parents talk to their children makes a difference. Grammatically correct parents can counteract the horrors..." While i do occasionally correct others, it is rarely nit-picky. there is no excuse for not applying rules that were taught in grade two such as "Esty and I went to the gym". But again, as Mordy said, it is much more important to look at a person than at his grammatical skills.
Hope this resolves all issues!
My two cents on this...
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I enjoyed the post. I agree with Shevy, that people shouldn't drive themselves crazy over this stuff - particularly in normal conversation - but at the same time, I think the (humorous) points stand. I actually don't mind when someone corrects a misstatement of mine; it helps me to become more articulate. This remains true as long as they're not annoying about it. It bothers me to hear people say things in a stupid manner out of sheer laziness or stupidity.
In the context of PN's example, this is exactly the case. It's not slang to use "whole nother" that way - it's simply idiocy. It's similar to when people spell certain words wrong repeatedly - and not in the way of a typo. Differant. I *hate* that. It's DifferEnt. Anyways... readers of this blog know that I'm not a stickler for grammar and the like. At the same time, you don't generally read this blog and get annoyed with my word usage and spelling as often happens on some other blogs I've read. I think that's the proper balance.
there are a lot of misspellings that i can tolerate, but ALOT is not one of them!
ReplyDeletethought i'd get that out of my system. whew.
Hmmm... Oh Grammar and spelling, how I hate them so. Maybe its because I got an 8 on a spelling test in 3rd grade but spelling was never my strong point. I honestly dont think its a big deal if someone spells something wrong. As long as you could make out what the person is trying to get at, fine. Now that doesnt mean that when every other word is misspelled I dont start getting annoyed but hey once in while.. sheesh there are many more things to get annoyed about. So this goes with out saying that when someone is speaking and they mess up in their grammer then I think its ridiculouls when people correct them. If I am speaking for a project in front of my whole school or a presentation in front of the my whole work then I will make sure that everything I say will be spoken in the proper terms. But if Im just hanging out with my friends so a) sometimes its fun to say things diffrently b) if as a friend you want to help me out on things that need correcting, there are so many more things then grammer to help me out on. Why start nitpicking at the small things? Teach something or correct me on something that will trully be useful! Otherwise its not me who gets annoying, but you! (That concludes my post with 13 spelling mistakes and 23 gramatical errors :)
ReplyDeleteBryan Garner approves of that usage in his book, Bryan Garner's Dictionary of Modern Usage. He is considered a world authority and he knows his stuff. Check out his webiste www.lawprose.org.
ReplyDelete