Holyman, I tell you man you gotta believe in what you seeYD has a short but well-put post on chanoch l'na'ar al pi darko [educate each child according to his way] up at Adventures in Chinuch. A short excerpt:
Cause its you that corrupt us man and deep throat philosophy
I don't need your spells or the little games you try to pull on me
Come to think of it I don't need your religion
Unfortunately, our school systems offer little variety in terms of Jewish education. The usual Gemara, Chumash, Navi, Halacha, Ivrit classes make up 99% of what our schools are teaching. Additionally, not enough is being done in the area of creativity to spark learning interest (although this is a good example of what a little hard work can do). This is not a simple subject to approach, due to the myriad of factors that are involved, but one that needs to be addressed. And if we don't, we are in danger of producing students who say, "Come to think of it, I don't need your religion."I recall telling Jewish Atheist on more than one occasion after hearing some of his arguments and experiences that while we grew up similarly in many ways, had he simply had a better education he would undoubtedly be a happy, religious Jew today. While he might disagree with that assessment, or even more likely say that he "hopes not" because of what he thinks of Judaism and its teachings in the present, it is so often the case among the skeptical bloggers and others who have abandoned Judaism that they were presented with a one-size-fits-all education approach. Note that this is not a problem exclusive whatsoever to "Yeshivish" schools, but is sometimes just as true in Modern Orthodox institutions as well, as is clear from books, the skeptic blogs, and good old anecdotal information.
Once a person feels truly excluded from the Judaism they are being brought up in, they are as likely to abandon it quickly as they are to find another 'branch' that suits them better. While obviously having every school teach every viewpoint would be impractical and slightly ridiculous, it is important to balance whatever is being taught with an understanding that in many areas there are multiple viewpoints. The reason the one being taught is preferred within a hashkafa can be for various reasons - but that others do in fact disagree.
I've long felt that one of the best portions of my own education was a little, easily forgettable [somewhat] weekly program that WITS has for seniors called STAMP - Senior Torah And Mussar Perspectives. One objective of it was to present important subjects and somewhat controversial subjects within the Orthodox community in a framework that explained fairly both sides of these debates. The style was a short introduction explaining both sides by the Rebbe - including pros and cons, praises and criticisms - followed by a fully open question and answer session for 45 minutes, at which point it would end no matter what. By being able to learn about and discuss these subjects, we gained not only a greater understanding of them, but we were able to see why we were educated and taught a certain way and judge for ourselves whether that was appropriate for us and what would be appropriate for us and our families going forward.
I think there needs to be greater implementation of similar programs, though it is sadly difficult to find people who can fairly represent sides with which they do not agree. (I am still impressed that Rabbi Cheplowitz in WITS was able to do so so well at that time.) I also think such programs should not wait until one is a senior in high school, though certainly there are different levels of understanding and it should be suited to each age bracket. What we were presented with as seniors would certainly have been disastrous as freshmen.
Hopefully, at some point, such programs will no longer even be necessary.
Great idea by WITS. Actually at MTA, Rabbis Schiller and Bechhofer have presented public discussions on hashkafic topics, but I don't know how much student participation was involved. Here's the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://schiller.bechhofer.googlepages.com/home
But this idea goes beyond hashkafa and simply into what is taught. Every student everywhere has basically taught within the same type of curriculum.
In my Israel school we had a similar class called Confronting Modernity. It was once a week and we read articles with various degrees of controversial-ness and then would discuss them. The rabbi of the class was more of a moderator than a teacher - he never gave his own opinion. Rather, he sometimes stepped in to play devil's advocate but mostly let us discuss with each other.
ReplyDeleteI think people have to not be so terrified of kids not following 100% exactly in their footsteps. I think a lot of resistance to other ways of seeing/doing things - at least in my own experience - comes from a fear that anything that isn't YOUR way isn't the best way, or isn't right at all, or has problems, or you don't like as much as your way, and you want your kids or students to follow exactly the way you think is most correct and best. So if a kid doesn't fit that exact mold and feels that anything else they do would be seen as wrong by those who are meant to be guiding them, they can get easily frustrated and turned off entirely. And I'm not even talking about them wanting to do something as drastic as violating halacha. Obviously there are things that are okay and things that are not, but there's a grayer area in the middle that shouldn't be completely written off for different kinds of kids.
One of the interesting aspects of the WITS STAMP was that at the time, we couldn't record it - only take handwritten notes. In addition, we weren't to discuss it with people who were not there - but it was optional.
ReplyDeleteNot only was this effective in getting us to come and listen, but it made us actually think about what we were discussing.
I recall telling Jewish Atheist on more than one occasion after hearing some of his arguments and experiences that while we grew up similarly in many ways, had he simply had a better education he would undoubtedly be a happy, religious Jew today. While he might disagree with that assessment, or even more likely say that he "hopes not" because of what he thinks of Judaism and its teachings in the present, it is so often the case among the skeptical bloggers and others who have abandoned Judaism that they were presented with a one-size-fits-all education approach.
ReplyDeleteI did not at all have a one-size-fits-all education approach. I went to a LWMO coed school, associated with many RWMOs, went to a RWMO yeshiva, had RWMO, LWMO, Conservative, and non-Jewish extended family etc.My exposure to chassidus and other mystical movements was limited to visits to Bnei Brak and Sfat and Aryeh Kaplan books, it's true.
Once a person feels truly excluded from the Judaism they are being brought up in, they are as likely to abandon it quickly as they are to find another 'branch' that suits them better.
See, THIS is the key that you don't get. Once I felt truly excluded from the Judaism I was brought up in, I went back to first principles and asked what I should believe in and how I should act. I had no bias towards the other 'branches' and therefore didn't just go there. I went to the place I thought was true and I haven't looked back.
That's the big difference between you and me -- not the nature of the education we had, but where our priorities lie. My priority was to find what was true. Yours is to find a 'branch' you're happy in. That's okay, there's no reason that "what is true" is necessarily more important than "what makes you happy" (and they probably coincide frequently, too.) I'm just saying, that's the difference.
When you wake up one day and realize that what you've been taught isn't true, do you scramble for cover or do you look for what is true? I did the latter.
Oh, and I think the WITS program is a great idea, too. Although why limit it to Orthodox perspectives? That gets back to this truth vs. comfort issue that divides you and me.
ReplyDeleteAlthough why limit it to Orthodox perspectives? That gets back to this truth vs. comfort issue that divides you and me.
ReplyDeleteProbably comes back to that. I don't see a need to present every point of view, certainly not those with which you do not believe fall into the framework of truth, particularly when time is not unlimited and your primary focus and responsibility is to teach certain things.
I did not at all have a one-size-fits-all education approach.
...but you did. I've noted this on a few posts of yours where you express as widespread or mandatory Jewish beliefs things which even I (in relatively UO schools all my life) were not taught as absolutes.
You also weren't around much of a yeshivish crowd it seems. What may be is that you were simply brought up in a weak MO environment where the teachers felt the need to try to push this somewhat extreme view to try and keep people from becoming less religious. I don't know.
See, THIS is the key that you don't get.
Actually, that's exactly what I get. And I think that since there's no such thing as "provable" religion, once you're throwing out the entire religion as you know it it's difficult if not impossible to then argue for the religion over nothing.
My priority was to find what was true. Yours is to find a 'branch' you're happy in. That's okay, there's no reason that "what is true" is necessarily more important than "what makes you happy" (and they probably coincide frequently, too.) I'm just saying, that's the difference.
Agree/disagree. Disagree mostly on whether the "branches" are true - you say no, I say yes. Because of that, I will argue for an approach that keeps people within that truth.