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Monday, June 22, 2009

Dancing is NOT Tznius

Via a friend:
My sister is in Bais Yaakov of Monsey, and they had their end of year assembly today. The principal announced that from now on at the annual play, they are not having dance, because it's not tzniusdik. The end.

[...] Mind you this is the school that barely even lets the girls stand still and clap because all the dance moves they wanna do aren't tzniusdik enough, so they are taking dance out; and in its place they are having something called "musical movements". (She got a laugh from the school when she announced that.)
I'm just glad Serach went to Manhattan High School instead.

All seriousness, I don't get it. At what point will a large chunk of the people in communities and schools like this simply say "Dai!" and either go off or blow up the system? You can only restrict people so much before they finally have had enough - especially when there are alternatives.

Updated - Additional rules, via this friend:
  • Not allowed to cheer vocally (not tzniusdik)
  • Rules about length of earrings
  • Color of tights
  • Color of shoes
  • Can't sit on the floor
  • Can't drink from a bottle (straw only)
  • Send girls home for wearing scarves
Also, as someone else pointed out, MHS is not necessarily much better nowadays.

45 comments:

  1. So sick.

    I think people have forgotten what the word "tznius" means. It does not mean being a meek, boring and showing no expression of excitement whatsoever.

    jeese.

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  2. >Can't drink from a bottle (straw only)

    Well, I can understand this one. :)

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  3. But then again, straws might be a problem as well

    At 1:52 in this video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXf6oYafHtQ

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  4. I feel stifled just reading that.

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  5. You should feel stifled. very stifled. Honest I didn't even give him half the rules.
    Since I have left, I hear that the student guide has reached over 250 pages. :-p

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  6. I'm told Reb Soleveichik's wife didn't cover her hair...look how the "norm" gets moved further and further toward an Islamic model of snius!

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  7. So at the request of Ezzie, I thought I would let you know how they alter songs in BYM:
    Years ago, they sand "come on and ride the train" from journey's 2. Except apparently, Abie Rottenberg's version was too "goyish" for them, because they made some changes.
    You cant say "c'mon and ride the train"-that isnt polite.
    So instead, they sang: please come on and ride the train

    And you cant say "ridin', ridin' ridin' on the train", that sounds too slangy. Instead, they sang:
    riding, riding, riding on the train.

    And the best-
    You cant say "maybe if you're lucky", there is no such thing as luck! So they sang:
    "maybe if it's meant to be"

    I kid you not.

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  8. It's the Taliban cell living and breathing in Monsey. Coming soon (actually most likely already there) to your neighborhood.

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  9. ChaniD - Amen.

    HH - Only for people like you. :)

    Erachet - Hehe.

    Former - Oysh.

    NL - Slightly different example, but the shift seems to be speeding up rather than slowing down.

    Baila - :/

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  10. no matter how to the right MHS has become, they do not conform to a vaad harabonim, and therefore can do whatever they want. They still go to museums (moma, frick,) the Metropolitan opera house, have art class in central park and never make outside of school, rules!!!!!!!!!!!

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  11. Baruch Hashem they are taking tznius more seriously and cutting down. I can't imagine the young women of Monsey being allowed to clap in public. I mean, why should they be allowed to holler and clap in excitement at their best friend's wedding? That's just wrong and inappropriate.

    I'm kidding...

    I'm all for tznius and I think it's one of the most important things in halacha (men need to be tznius in ways too), but c'mon! Before you know it, schools will be shechting cows in their own backyards for chinuuuu...O wait, they already do. :)

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  12. You know something? I'm one of those people that is extremely fed up with "frumkeit" and this just blows my mind away. Seriously. I've had enough. This is not what G-d wants. If these are the leaders of frumkeit, then I don't know what I want a part in it.

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  13. Nobody said it's what G-d wants. The fact is, no matter where you are in the world, there will always be extremists. You just gotta do your own thing and find your own way.

    You can't get all worked up over people who make fences that are miles away from the actual issurim. You have your fences, they have theirs. They may be intarded, but what can ya do...

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  14. It's sadly happening all over Ezzie.
    This year in Breuer's (the Torah Im Derech Eretz capital....), the regular pianist for graduation was out of town and procured another. Unfortunately, she was a woman (*gasp*!) and was therefore disallowed from playing Pomp and Circumstance (in a corner while everybody was watching the boys walk down ANYWAY)... SHEESH.........

    Regarding the alteration of scripts, see my post here...... {heavy sigh}

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  15. I assume the girls had only danced with a female audience present and then it should be no more a breach of tznius than dancing at a wedding on the women's side of the mechitza. Even BJJ put up a performance with song and dance for women. But, who knows, with the change in tznius climate, they may have banned their "erev shira," too. Even over 20 years ago, there were rabbis in Israel who didn't like it, but they were probably the ones who held women to a standard of black tichels over shaved heads.

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  16. If this is the way the road is going, the next thing that is going to be banned for tznius reasons is breathing for women. Yup breathing. Can you think of anything more prost and disturbing for other women to see, never mind what it would do to men, then to see a woman's diaphragm pushing air through the lungs and vibrating the thoracic cavity (sorry for the ten dollar words but using plain English to describe the anatomy of a female has already been declared off limits in a lot of places.)

    These schools really need to be careful. Frost said it best: "Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
    What I was walling in or walling out,
    And to whom I was like to give offence.
    Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
    That wants it down!"

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  17. Imagine if davening came with choreography. I mean, full out hands, feet, shuffle step, movements. If you were constantly making sure that you were not messing up the beat, would you have any idea what you were saying and to who? Probably not. Now, apply this to tznuit. If a woman is constantly making sure that she isn't clapping, raising her voice, showing the wrong kind of tights (or hose or whatever), sipping from the wrong type of vessel...than how is she even aware that she is honoring Hashem? This is so wrong. And how are we to explain this to our daughters, when being tznius now sounds like following rules to satisfy a checklist?

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  18. G6 - This year in Breuer's (the Torah Im Derech Eretz capital....), the regular pianist for graduation was out of town and procured another. Unfortunately, she was a woman (*gasp*!) and was therefore disallowed from playing Pomp and Circumstance (in a corner while everybody was watching the boys walk down ANYWAY)... SHEESH.........

    Oy vey, have the chnyoks taken over Breuers as well? Say it isn't so!!!!

    Mark

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  19. So instead, they sang: please come on and ride the train


    You mean they actually approved of riding non-segregated public transportation? What a breach of tznius!!!

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  20. Mark:

    Breuer's abandoned Torah im Derekh Eretz a long time ago.

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  21. Serach, the difference is that in BYM they wouldn't even talk about those places. Seriously.
    Ain darkan shel benos yisroel


    And DTC, I am fairly sure it was a seperate seating train. ;-) But in all honesty, this is monsey, where people don't hear of mass transit. It probably never occurred to them.

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  22. OOH I know- Just break the rules for a day- Have everyone show up in dresses made of neon colored plastic straws while jamming out to the Rake's Progress by Stravinsky!

    Trust me- if every student did this on one day- the administration would "get" Tzinus.

    As what this actually is: The school is trying to demonstrate quality in the public sphere. It just is a really bad signaling choice for schools, because it doesn't really help explain what the students are gaining as a practical knowledge base that that will help them succeed over the course of a lifetime. See for an intro this Wikipedia page on Information economics.

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  23. The rule that the students cannot drink directly from a bottle would make me beyond hesitant to send a daughter to such a school. I mean, how perverted is the staff?

    I went to public school where some boys made it their duty to turn everything into something sexual. That was during middle school. By high school, they were mostly mentchen. Seems there is a case of delayed development here for adults to even imagine some act as such.

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  24. I must apologize for bringing Torah Im Derech Eretz vis a vis Breuer's into the equation.
    It led to an opening for senseless Breuer bashing.
    This particular issue, upsetting as it is, has nothing to do with T.I.D.E.
    My criticism of Breuers' choice was coming as somebody who is trying to open eyes and effect change, NOT BASH.
    I am concerned that others may have their own agenda and I don't wish to be a part of that group.

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  25. sephardilady- the idea is that eisav, when asking for the food from yaakov, said "Haliteini nah min ha'adom ha'adom hazeh"

    It's a lashon of pouring the food down his throat, meaning, eisav wanted yaakov to pour it straight down his throat, not serve it properly.
    So pouring somehting straight down your throat is considered the way an untzniusdik person like Eisav eats, not tzniusdik and temimusdik little tzidkanios like us BY girls.

    See, I listened in 9th grade parsha class, even if I don't follow all the rules. ;-)

    And by the way, this is actually one of the more understandable rules they have there. I mean, watch someone drinking from a (big) bottle, it looks pretty unrefined. I personally drink from a cup so it doesn't concern me...

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  26. BYM girl-I was envisioning a small bottle of Coke or water, not the 2 liter bottle. Small drink bottles are designed for drinking. I try to carry a drink bottle during the summer.

    Perhaps you are onto something and I am way off. Hope no one is offended when I take a swig from my water bottle while trying not to dehydrate at the park.

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  27. sephardilady- I didn't mean the 2 liter variety. I think the idea is that the bigger the bottle, the less refined it looks. While I don't subscribe to this whole theory, I must tell you that I think drinking out of a 2 liter bottle is simply gross.
    Again, this isn't me defending the school. I am the one who told Ezzie about all this, do you think I am all pro these rules?

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  28. Whoah, everyone, chill the eff out. First of all, you are all missing the point. BYM is a hardcore BY school, one of the most religious and strict in the country. These rules might seem ridiculous to the average person, but to a BYM girl, they are the norm - and the norm to their families, communities, and rabbanim as well. They are very, very strict, and their way of serving Hashem and keeping a Torah lifestyle is much more modest, low-key, and strict. They do things that you don't do and don't agree with, and YOU do things that they don't agree with. You think you're right, of course, but everyone's entitled to their own opinion. No one is forced to go BYM. For the most part, the girls that go there come from generations of women who have attended the school as well. And if they don't like it, it's 4 freakin' years, and people move on after high school. HS is not the be-all, end all that some people like to make it out to be.

    And lest y'all think I'm some sort of BYM girl defending her own, I'm an MHS girl, a few years behind Serach, in fact. And MHS gave us plenty of garbage, too. But you know what? I graduated, got married, got my degree, and I live my own life now how I please, and how I think is right. I definitely don't agree with how BYM-ers live, and I would never send my children there, but that doesn't make them wrong - just different.

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  29. Arriela, what you said is not completely true. Firstly, dont think I am some angry-at-the-system-rebellious kind of girl. I always was, and continue to be, a good bais yaakov girl. I dress up to the standards of BYM, and I act in, what I think, is a very refined manner.
    My teachers loved me when I was there, and when we meet around monsey now, they always stop to say hi and see how I am doing. And I am never embarrassed of what I wear when they see me.

    But-
    I can't help but think that they are making a mistake. This is a school that is run by a bunch of old rebbetzins. Not to knock that. They are fountains of knowledge and experience, and they are really special and amazing people. But thats not what today's generation needs. If you think BYM is a school attended by none but tzadikim, think again.
    Perhaps, the year I graduated was the year that BYM was last like the school you are describing. In my day, not only was the concept of girls and boys interacting completely taboo, but we never heard of it. Though I am sure there were girls in my grade who hung out with guys, they would never admit it. I.e. they would go to extreme length, and lie as much as they needed, to cover such things up. Now, the girls discuss it openly, within earshot of teachers.
    This is one illustration of it, but in truth, the frumkeit level of the girls has gone down so quickly it is hard to believe. And yet, rather than try to meet the demands of a new kind of student, and face the challenges of their current students, they are placing further and further restrictions in the hopes that a miracle will happen.
    I mean, perhaps in my day, it was ok to preach to the girls non-stop about marrying a learning boy (though it bothered me a lot then too), now you have to preach to them about staying frum and staying shomer negiah, because that's what a lot of girls are dealing with. And yet, they don't. A lot og the girls in BYM today are not girls who are at the level of not dancing because of tznius.
    I am not an experienced educator, but I see the girls my little sister hangs out with, and I dont recognize my former school. Yet, dealing with this new generation facing challenges mine never faced....they have the same old rebbetzins who we thought were out of it. Except they are a million times more out of it when dealing with these girls.
    Seriously, I am no rebbetzin, nor am I a tzadekes, but I have spoken to a few younger girls in BYM (among other schools) and I hear how dissillusioned they are. When they hear what I have to say, they are like, "wow, why can't they teach us that stuff in schools?" And I wonder...why?
    Probably because they are too busy teaching about how some very aidel dances are untzniusdik.

    Ok, I'll stop now.

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  30. Former BYM girl -

    What you say about the girls in BYM I'm sure is very true of BYM and many other high schools these days, as well. But the key thing here, what upsets me when I hear people bashing the administration for the choices they make and the rules they enforce, is that Bais Yaakov of Monsey is a super, super frum school, and they never, ever pretend to be anything but that. The school is what it is, and if they girls that go there don't like it, they shouldn't attend. There are many, many other options in Monsey now. When I was in HS, there was BYM, BYR, and Bat Torah. Now there's also Ateres (much more chilled), Breuers, BYR is much more relaxed.......and those are just the places in Monsey itself.

    BYM wants, and grooms, good little BY girls, which is fine. But if the girls attending are NOT that, then they school needs to wise up and only either 1) accept girls they feel are right for the school and their hashkafa, or b) do what they are doing, which is enforcing what THEY feel is inappropriate and dealing with the girls who rebel by giving them other options for schools to go to - because there are, and they would feel better there.

    I didn't go to BYM for a reason. I would have had a fit as an emotional, overdramatic, self-centered teenager if a Rebbetzin who I viewed as "out of it" tried to pull something on me that I didn't agree with. But I, as well as my parents, recognized the fact that BYM was NOT the school for me, so I went to MHS instead.

    And if there are girls who are BYM that are talking to guys, seeing movies, doing things that in BY-land are considered VERY VERY BAD, then they don't belong there, and they should find a school that they are happier in. It's better for everyone - the school, the parents, and the girl herself - if she isn't miserable in a school that has a very clear hashkafa, one she does not agree with.

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  31. Ariella, I completely agree with you that people shouldn't be bashing a school that they chose to send their kids to, but remember a few things.
    Firstly, that doesn't explain behavior on the school's part. Yes, they can say "they chose to come here, they have to fit to our mold" but that would be highly irresponsible of a school. They have these highly impressionable, confused teenagers in their hands, and if I can figure it out, then experienced educators should also be able to figure out that it won't work. If you have a student body that is a majority of girls who aren't up to your standards, you are playing with fire if you ignore that and try to fake it.
    Also, it's not a student's choice to go there. Take my sister, she is the youngers girl, me and all of my sisters went to BYM, and my parents were pretty happy with the school. Then, when it came to her, it didn't occur to them to switch. Their philosophy was "if it aint broke, don't fix it." I tried explaining that it was broke, but they couldn't see it. So now you have a girl who is in BYM, hates it, curses out every rule they make, and thinks tznius is a joke, because that's how she sees this new "musical moments" shtick.
    And yes, before you ask, my parents are switching her before next year.

    Do I make more sense now?

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  32. Former BYM girl -

    I do understand that your parents sent your sister to BYM, mistakenly, and now they are trying to fix that, because a girl who "curses out her school" is not a good situation. I was lucky, I guess, my three siblings and I went to four different high schools - whichever worked best for each of us, as a person.

    And I do know a lot of people in Monsey send their daughters to BYM because they've always sent their daughters there, and they went there themselves (and in some cases, their mothers too).

    But I can't quit give in completely to the idea of changing BYM to fit some of the girls that go there. There are so many good girls, easy girls, that go there - not all the girls are rebellious or having problems with the rules. And should the school change their basic hashkafa to make the exceptions comfortable? BYM is not the type of school to deal with "problem girls" or girls who aren't fitting into the mold. And if they DO become that type of school, I don't think they'll be BYM anymore.

    Listen, I don't like the school that much, I don't think most of the rules they enforce are good, most of my friends who went there are miles away from a typical BYM girl now, 5 years later. But at the same time, how far should a school "change" or "compromise" before it's not the same school anymore? It will be a cold day in hell before any of the Rebbetzins at BYM start talking about shomer negia in a practical sense, or recommended "The Magic Touch" or "Inside/Outside" to their students. While I think that's a bad thing, it 100% fits in with BYM philosophy and hashkafa and I'm not sure that if they give an inch, the girls won't take a mile.

    A school needs to stand up for what they believe in. BYM is doing that. It might cost them some students, but they aren't bending to the will of girls that want them to change, they are holding firm in the face of a lot of opposition and change, and in the long run, I think that will hold them steady. There are many, many girls who go to BYM and enjoy it. The ones who don't, well, there are always ones who don't fit the mold. The best solution for them is to change or get out.

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  33. Every time I read something like this it makes me want to renounce Judaism.

    I resent these "rabbis" distorting my religion into something ugly, controlling, and repressive.

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  34. Ok, gotta say this. I have two daughters who graduated from BYM and another who is there now. I went to Central Manhattan, and am obviously not one of those fourth generation frummies.

    I choose to send my girls to BYM and BYM makes it very clear who they are and who they are not. If you can't deal with the rules, it's obviously not the right place to send your kid. While some of the rules they enforce may not be ones I would necessarily have thought necessary, they make it very clear that they are teaching the girls to be B'nos Melachim and to behave with dignity and class.

    Do I agree with the idea of them banning dance next year? No. But at the end of the day, it is a great school for a certain girls. B'H there are other choices in Monsey and no one is forced to go there now. BYR now has two ninth grades as does Breuer's. No one is forcing anyone to go there. But if you're gonna go there, then, yes, you have to follow the rules.

    Both my daughter and I sign a paper saying my daughter will agree to abide by the rules of the school, none of which are unreasonable. If you feel the rules are unfair or something you can live with, then pick another school.

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  35. Ariella and Monsey Mom, I believe we are going around in circles, so let me try to clarify one last time.
    There are two issues we are dealing with here:
    1- the school and their right to make rules as ridiculous as these.
    2- the chinuch that the school is trying to provide for the girls.

    From the point of view of the first issue, this rule is fine. They are a very frum school, always striving to be frummer, and they have every right to make whatever rules they want. Like both of you said, if you don't like it, there are plenty of other options in terms of high schools.

    BUT-

    From the point of view of our second issue, the chinuch, they are making a grave mistake here. Let's leave behind the reason that these girls are here. It doesn't matter what the reason is, the simple fact is- they are here. And as long as these young and impressionable girls are in the school's care, they must be taught the way they need to be taught. As we know, chanoch lena'ar al pi darko, if they are making rules that are causing the girls to come home from school and say "forget it. I can't be tzniusdik up to their standards, and I will never please them, so why bother?" then you have failed dismally in your chinuch. If the girls are on the level of not dancing because it isn't tzniusdik, great, thats an amazing rule. But a very small percentage of the student body there (if any) is up to that level, so it is simply the wrong message and the wrong idea.

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  36. Former BYM Girl -
    Please be careful not to assume that anybody is 'frummer' just because they take on more and more ridiculous chumros (or that girls who won't dance in front of other girls are on a 'higher level').
    I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with anything else in your comment but THAT is a very big MIS-statement.....

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  37. G6, I don't mean to say that they are frummer, I apologize. What I meant is that the more "bais yaakov-y" girls, who are more into tznius and the like, are more capable of handling such rules. But girls who are not up to that level of tznius, will have a very rough time accepting this rule. Most likely, it will make them view this, and other school rules, as a big joke.
    DO you understand my point now?

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  38. I understood your point the whole time.
    It was your usage of "frummer" and "higher level" with regard to being mekabel chumros upon oneself that I objected to, for that is a dangerous road to go down.... making judgments as to who is "frummer" than whom.
    I just wanted that point clarified because I hear it a lot....

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  39. Oh, blah blah, G6. Enough with the "frummer" PC bull. You know what? Sometimes, people who take on chumros - WEATHER OR NOT YOU AGREE WITH THEM - DOES make them frummer. And on a higher level. Deal.

    And my final response to Former BY girl - I understand what you are saying. Yes, chinuch in a school that drives girls AWAY would be a school that is very much failing at their job. However, and this is the key point that I was trying to make, I do NOT think that BYM is failing! This comes back to my main point, that the girls who go to BYM, and the families that send them there, encourage the girls to do what the school wants, and support the administration. I think that the percentage of girls that BYM is turning off (permanently, not just stupid teenagers who are over-sensitive and don't realize the valuable lessons they're learning until after they graduate, like I did) is negligible. I think that BYM is succeeding tremendously with the clientele they serve.

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  40. Oh Ariella!
    Thank you so much for proving my point better than I ever could... namely by example.
    How do we know that taking on chumros makes one frummer? Is it by the respectful tone the chumro advocates take when they comment on blogs? Sometimes it doesn't make them frummer. It just makes them judgmental.
    Thanks for being "you". ;)

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  41. Hey, I didn't say I take on any chumros. I'm not comparing me to you. I'm comparing people who say that "chumros don't make you frummer" when in fact, they can very much do just that.

    People who only keep cholov yisroel because they want an extra special thing to bring them closer to Hashem? That's being "frummer". People who don't watch movies/tv/listen to non-Jewish music because they honestly believe that it's not good for their neshamos? Furmmer. Girls who only wear knee socks and longer skirts and shirts buttoned up to their necks because they genuinely feel that the way a woman should dress in order to be properly tznius? Frummer, frummer, frummer.

    You can tell me all you want about all the things you do and all the halachos you keep and all the chesed - and I'll believe you. I'm not knocking it. But don't start give me the BS about how you can wear no socks in the summer and have streaked blond hair and bright red toenails and jam out to Rascal Flatts on the radio (all things of which I do!) and be "frummer" than your average Lakewood aidel maidel. Cause guess what? You're not! It's doesn't make you a worse PERSON - but it DOES make you less "frum".

    And people, you just gotta accept it.

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  42. Ariella - If you think that chumros such as the ones you mentioned make a person "frummer" you need to seriously learn a lot more about Torah and yiddishkeit.

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  43. I'm so sorry Ariella, but repeating the same word three times and hinting at profanity doesn't make you right.
    Choosing to dress in a particular way does NOT necessarily make a person frummer. It may perhaps make them "more machmir" but do not confuse the two. How often lately have we seen people "dressing the part", behaving in decidedly non-frum ways?
    I think being more careful with shmiras hamitzvos goes a long way further to making a person "frum".
    It's not all about what's on the "outside".
    I agree with Ezzie that you need to do a little brushing up on the facts.

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  44. " I think being more careful with shmiras hamitzvos goes a long way further to making a person "frum"."

    And what do you think chumros are? We're not talking about BASIC halacha, we're talking about taking things a STEP BEYOND. People who taking things a "step beyond" ARE frummer. Frummer = more religious. Frummer = more machmir.

    Frummer does NOT mean a better person, a better Jew, it just means MORE RELIGIOUS. They are taking upon themselves MORE RELIGION and are therefore, MORE RELIGIOUS.

    Perhaps what you consider "frummer" is different?

    You can be a better PERSON and act like a better JEW without being "frummer". To me, those are not mutually exclusive. I don't think that my lack of eating cholov yisroel makes me a WORSE JEW than than someone who does. I just thinks that makes them FRUMMER.

    FRUMMER doesn't equal better. It just equals FRUMMER.

    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I'm standing firm on this one. I've had my share of dealing with people who think anyone who keeps more chumros than them is somehow stupid or ridiculous for taking things upon themselves that they don't consider necessary. What's necessary for everyone is different, and even though I may not be an aidel-maidel Lakewood chick, I think it's time someone stood up for people who choose to live a different lifestyle than you. For some reason, the "frummer" community gets all the flack, when the MO community has just as much crap going on in it than anyone else.

    This is hilarious to me, because I am 100% not BY, chareidi, or yeshivish in any way. I'm just pissed that people can't recognize the difference between "frummer" and "better".

    And yes, Ezzie, I 100% think that people who keep chumros such as that make you (how I see) "frummer" as I explained above. That doesn't mean I have to learn more about yiddishkeit, it means I think they are more religious - IN THAT - than someone who doesn't keep them. For example, there are numerous Rabbanim who say that R' Moshe's heter for eating cholov stam is no longer applicable in this day and age. People who are more careful about cholov stam, are, in my eyes, frummer in that area than I am.

    I will agree to disagree with both of you.

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  45. And what do you think chumros are?

    Extra gedarim people place upon themselves because they think they need it/it will help them in the practice of a certain mitzvah. In no way shape or form is this "better"; this is (or should be, anyway) a personal decision a person makes about their own practice. Standardization of such practices could run into a serious issue of violating "bal tosif".

    We're not talking about BASIC halacha, we're talking about taking things a STEP BEYOND.

    ...which again, could potentially be assur.

    People who taking things a "step beyond" ARE frummer.

    False.

    Frummer = more machmir.

    False.

    Rather than respond to the rest, I will merely note from a conversation we were having here this Shabbos. R' Moshe Feinstein was a clear gadol - and yet was very "meikal" in psak in comparison to many of his contemporaries. Why is this? Because anyone can be "machmir" - it takes someone with an understanding of halacha to say "No, this is perfectly okay."

    It is not "better" to be machmir; being machmir can certainly be used to help better one's self, but in common practice, chumra often has more to do with lack of knowledge than anything else. It most certainly does not make one "frummer".

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