I actually have some work to do now (shehecheyanu), but I just wanted to make clear that the post from yesterday's point was not to bash NYers. [Insert NY-bashing here to show when we *would* be doing so :) .] As I said in the comments there, in response to a good point/question by RaggedyMom:
We actually had this discussion at my house over Shabbos Shuva, where a good friend argued the same thing. It's not a "NY-bashing" session as much as it's making a point, mostly to ourselves.You can read the rest of the comment here.
The idea is to point out the actions and attitudes that pervade the NY-NJ area, particularly the Jewish communities - where we "expect better". PsychoToddler and others have made the point well in other places. The NYC area is generally looked to as a guide to 'how Jews should be', primarily because it's where most frum American Jews live. This is where the more recognized names are, this is where you have seriously big Orthodox communities. It is important to remember the flaws that come with it, particularly when people in other communities "bring NY" to those communities.
I really want to write more about this, but here's one example I gave that Shabbos: I notice that when I'm in NY, I act a certain way that I don't like. I drive a certain way, I cross streets a certain way, I answer my cellphone at certain times, I generally do a number of things that are perfectly normal here in NY. They may not even be "rude" in NY. But if I'm in Cleveland, Milwaukee, Chicago, Baltimore, or Los Angeles, and I do any of those, they are rude and they do upset people. Most of all, they upset me. I think they show a lack of manners, even when I'm in NY - and yet they're "normal" here.
When someone says "Stop acting like a NYer",
Let's be honest though, there is a different mindset amongst NYers in general, than there is from people in smaller cities. I'm not being specific to Jews here either. When I was trying to explain to a native NYer why I like the fact that, in Alabama, people stop on the street and say hello to one another, whether or not you know them, and how it's nice when the grocery store clerk takes the time to have a conversation with you, I have repeatedly gotten disbelieving stares and questions about why anyone would waste their time on strangers. I had never received those kinds of attitudes outside NY. (And that has nothing to do with the numerous NYers who have questioned the authenticity of Jews living in Alabama, or not being able to place Alabama on a map, but those are different stories.)
ReplyDeleteOf course not every single person living in NY, or even all those who grew up here are like that. I have many people from here that I like and am friends with. But generalizations do stem from somewhere and receiving such attitudes from one general group of people does taint one's view. Maybe if people would work hard at changing the image others have at them by not acting in such ways, it would go a long way.
Some of my best friends are out-of-towners! (lol) Ezzie, I know you meant this in more of a playful way than how I’m responding to it. That being said, I have to emphasize that if someone feels that they’ve been rude, the internal cheshbon hanefesh that comes next should sound more like "I was being rude just then - I'll have to try to keep that in check!" versus "Gee, these past few years of living in NY must really be getting to me!" Shouldn’t we, when seeking to improve our own middos, engage more in individual introspection and less in deflection of our unpleasant behavior tendencies on a community and its inhabitants? In other words, blaming my rude behavior on being in NY is, well, rude!
ReplyDeleteShoshana - Amen. I think we're basically saying the same thing.
ReplyDeleteRM - I think you're misunderstanding me a bit... It's more of a "Wow, that was really rude. I need to stop acting like a NYer, even if I am living here." It's a 'Must. Not. Become. Like. Them.' type deal.
We're not blaming NY. We're blaming ourselves for being sucked into the "NY" way of life, the NY lifestyle. It's an easy way of reminding ourselves to not be rude.
Oooh, Shoshana - I remember a little bit after we got married, we went to Baltimore for Shabbos. We were waiting for the bus to go back to NY, and we had a few minutes, so I went into a supermarket to get something. I *knew* what was going to happen. I bought one thing, and there was an open checkout counter. It took about 5 minutes to buy the one item, with the lady behind the checkout counter taking her good old time, shmoozing with another worker or two then me before actually ringing it up. I thought it was really nice, having grown up in Cleveland (and HS in Milwaukee). The NYers around? Utter confusion/impatience, trying to figure out why the lady was "so slow". :)
ReplyDeleteI tried explaining that there was no rush, no line, and that it's polite. Right over their heads.
NY pace is ridiculously hectic... you get sucked in to that frenzy and way of acting just so that you don't get left behind or overlooked for being too meek or nice. And I guess the behaviour and attitude you're speaking of is a result of that lifestyle, every person for themselves sort of thing. When a community is like that, kids grow up not knowing differently, they need to see examples and role models of good middos to be able to change and not act in ways that may be considered rude.
ReplyDeleteBeing from even further out of town, you do notice a definite difference of attitudes and behaviors because the American lifestyle (in a bigger city) isn't quite the same as here. It took me a month to get used to the pace and the manner and the way things were over there! And despite where I'm from we do talk to strangers while waiting in line, I think I also go 'sucked in' to the NY-pace after a few days there because that was the only way to not look like a lost tourist. (I do an excellent fake accent to sound american and avoid questions like "are you british?")