LWY responded that he thinks it generally works, as most frum people over 19 are married. Personally, I don't think that that shows that the system works; not only are a large segment of the people who are married people who never utilized the system, there are also those who skipped the system somehow, those who married their high school sweethearts (whether they were allowed to have them or not), and those who "used" the system to date someone they were interested in already. Moreover, as most shidduchim are ideas that people think of and then "set up", it is hard to say that going through the whole process was somehow better than if they simply had received one another's numbers and just started dating on their own.In all seriousness.
If The System is so messed up…if a large segment of society realizes this…if there is such frustration with the way things are…why is The System still the system of choice?
But I decided to compile a quick list of ten reasons a person might choose to utilize the system despite its many flaws, and posted it in the comments at Bad4; I've decided to repost the comment here, and am curious what y'all think:
If The System is so messed up…if a large segment of society realizes this…if there is such frustration with the way things are…why is The System still the system of choice?Feel free to add on to/disagree with the list, and expound on any thoughts you have about the list in general or any part in specific.Possible reasons that a given individual might think of and therefore they would choose the system.
1) Works for some.
2) Fear of being “ruined” within the system if one tries to date outside of it.
3) Peer pressure.
4) Believe it is the best route because it is more “tznius”.
5) Believe it is the best route because it “works”.
6) Laziness. [Ex: Much of the work done by others on one's behalf.]
7) Lack of a decent alternative.
8) Inability to utilize other methods well. [Ex: Not comfortable asking someone out.]
9) Discomfort with rejecting/being rejected face-to-face.
10) [Note: Doubtful] Actually enjoys the process on a consistent basis.
I could go on with reasons why people might choose the system despite its many flaws. It doesn’t mean that the flaws don’t exist nor that they shouldn’t be discussed, and if possible, fixed.
As I once put it to a friend - anyone who wishes to work within the shidduch system should feel free to do so. Similarly, all those who don’t wish to work within the system should feel free to do so. Finally, all those who choose either of those directions should not be negatively impacted any time they decide to utilize the other.
Ezzie, you could add #11--Having been told since birth by all your authority figures that the system is the only system. Since you believe them about everything else, if the system doesn't seem to work for you you believe that the problem is within yourself rather than in the system.
ReplyDelete1. Agreed.
ReplyDelete2. Eh.
3. Eh.
4. Agreed.
5. Eh.
6. Eh.
7. Somewhat agreed. I'd say this is more dependent on where you live and what is the accepted norm there. Meaning, if you live in a community where it is completely unacceptable to ask someone out directly, you're sort of stuck.
8. Agreed, somewhat.
9. Agreed.
10. Who ARE those people?
Note that 6 is usually more applicable to males.
ReplyDeleteYes to 1, 7, and 8
ReplyDeleteThe more you move to the right, the more likely you are to get married via the shidduch system. And for those people, the system works. If you're going to replace it, you're going to have to think of something that results in a greater % of people getting married.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the shidduch system is a highly elastic system- it could mean going to professional shadchun having her hold your hand through the entire relationship, or it could just mean your friend setting you up leaving the happy couple alone after one or two dates.
Also, the shidduch system is a highly elastic system- it could mean going to professional shadchun having her hold your hand through the entire relationship, or it could just mean your friend setting you up leaving the happy couple alone after one or two dates.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a very important point that people ignore.
Many of the issues that are talked about are not created by The System but instead by goodd old fashioned "people". The System can be as much or as little as you want it to be...placing all of the blame at it's feet is simply taking the easy way out.
The System can be as much or as little as you want it to be...placing all of the blame at it's feet is simply taking the easy way out.
ReplyDeleteYes.
"The System" sounds a lot like Big Brother. And people mean all sorts of things when they refer to it.
I don't think the idea of the system itself is an issue, it's more the way people use such a system and how much importance people place on certain things within the system (like how intricate the questions get about people, how much the stupidest things seem to matter, etc.)
Also, the amount of judging that goes on about and around and by dating people has nothing to do with any system. That has to do with people themselves (as G already said). I think if there was no system - if people just asked each other out without an intermediary - a lot of the same issues would still be there. Not all of them, for sure, but a lot of them.
I find it interesting that your measure the system's success by the percentage of singles finding their mates and marrying. The bigger question is whether the system leads to a higher percentage of successful marriages. And that's even harder to measure.
ReplyDeleteMother in Israel- studies.
ReplyDeleteTo clarify: studies should be done.
ReplyDeleteThis is what the Jewish world is missing.
We rant and rave but what we fail to do is research and poll to cull actual statistics.
One book that does just that is "Flipping Out," Yashar Books/Yeshiva University Press, I believe. Quite interesting.