If you've ever wanted to go out for drinks with friends of colleagues but felt uncomfortable (or hungry) going to a treif lounge or bar, the owners of Le Marais have created the perfect solution: Clubhouse Café.Sounds good - and smart. I'm sure that people will quickly be taking dates there.
Set to open across the street from Le Marais on West 46th Street (and under the hashgacha of the OU), the Café will be a modern/hip bar scene for Jewish professionals. The kosher bar will serve wings, mini burgers (sliders) and a kosher tapas and offer a raw bar assortment. Clubhouse Café will have seating for 90 with continental fare like steaks, burgers, chicken, guacamole and chili, deli and wraps.
Monday, October 29, 2007
Clubhouse Cafe
via Michael, this is interesting, and right around the corner from my office:
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that is a great idea.
ReplyDeletei wish we had something like that here.
Yet another place where you can spy on me . . .
ReplyDeletesince when are we supposed to be drinking with work colleagues???? this sound terrible. I thought it's assur to do so. people on a date shouldn't drink either unless they want to let down their guard. Why does this have a hechsher?
ReplyDelete1. This is old news (don't you subscribe to kosher-ny.com?)
ReplyDelete2. How the heck can you have a kosher raw bar?
Actually, now that I think about it a bit more, isn't this (ie drinking at a bar) sort of the opposite of Jewish refined behavior that we're supposed to be personifying to work colleagues? Seems a bit odd to make a "kosher" bar - bit of an oxymoron, no?
ReplyDelete~Sarah~ - Yep
ReplyDeleteApple - :D
Anon - I don't believe so. And especially for those who do so, having a kosher place to do it is far better than any alternatives.
Diana - No! I subscribe to your updates, duh. I dunno.
Apple - I get the feeling we're talking way more upscale, nothing like a pub. And I don't think so, anyway.
People, since when does "kosher" in regards to a food establishment entail some sort of hashkafic standard. A "hechsher" pertains to the food/drink, that's all. Halachah and Hashkafah, two seperate things.
ReplyDeleteA couple quick notes:
ReplyDelete1) It's assur to drink with gentiles
2) There is nothing haskafically wrong with serving alcohol per se' - every kosher upscale establishment serves alcohol.
3) Drinking with colleagues is how people in NY socialize. It's just a fact of life living here. I've personally gotten around the issue by going for the earlier part of the night (before anyone is tipsy) and drinking diet coke. Nobody looks at what you're drinking and it avoids hallachik and hashkafik issues (if you are man enough to know when to leave).
After work rounds (drinks) are part of being in a team player in many if not most office environments in NY. As long as it's being done properly, it's a great idea to have a kosher place to go to for kosher wings and a ballgame.
hooray Kosher wings!
ReplyDeleteEzzie/G - I hear your points, and I do think that this sort of thing will fill a niche for frum people who don't enjoy the idea of going to a nonkosher bar, but feel the need to socialize with colleagues after work on their own terms. I guess as long as it doesn't become rowdy and inappropriate ...? Dunno. Still kinda uncomfortable with the whole idea. Maybe that's cuz I'm not in the workforce yet :). (And besides, choosing how you spend your time *is* an halachic and hashkafic decision. Just because a food establishment is halachically 100% kosher doesn't mean it's the kind of place that is appropriate.)
ReplyDeleteG - Agreed 100%.
ReplyDeleteJonB - JonB!!! Woo!! Good comments. What's the source on #1, though?
Apple - It likely could have something to do with not being part of the workforce. Socializing with colleagues isn't a must per se, but refusal to do so doesn't generally go over well. We often have to use common sense as to which parties to attend and which not to. A place like this gives another option that will allow us to do so but with far less issues.
(And besides, choosing how you spend your time *is* an halachic and hashkafic decision. Just because a food establishment is halachically 100% kosher doesn't mean it's the kind of place that is appropriate.)
That's a hashkafic, not halachic, discussion.
I still want to know where they are getting kosher oysters from.
ReplyDeleteWell, if I'm remembering correctly... There is a yesh omrim in the newest addition of the sefer Minhagei Shtus D'Klal Yisroel that IF the oyster in question was able to provide a pearl of suitable size for a beinini set** of yichud room pearls then it's contents are retroactively elevated to a kosher status.
ReplyDelete**there is a macklokes leitzanim as to whether there is a chiluk between a NY set and non-NY set. There is additional questioning into this point in regard to whether the "NY set" status is taluy on a NY Chosson or a NY kallah.
I don't know if I should laugh or barf.
ReplyDelete**groan**
ReplyDeleteKallah, with a capital K.
Oh come on. That was damn funny!
ReplyDeleteAt least it wasn't effin funny. :)
ReplyDeleteIt was, I'll admit. But still - just the fact that that material exists for you to use disturbs me. Ya know?
When I googled Beinini Set (what the heck is that?) Bikini Set was the response. So now Chatanim are giving out bathing suits in the yichud room?
ReplyDeleteThat's a hashkafic, not halachic, discussion.
ReplyDeleteI know that. I'm talking about hashkafa when halachically things are figured out.
I know that. I'm talking about hashkafa when halachically things are figured out.
ReplyDeleteHehe. So then it's just hashkafa! :) See, we agree.
See, we agree.
ReplyDeleteLook, I don't think that having this bar/restaurant thingy is necessarily a matter of halacha. Choosing to go is more a matter of hashkafa and personal preference. And just to clarify: When I said "kosher" in my second comment, I was referring to the idea of a bar, which is generally thought of as a place that Jews don't frequent, being made into a "kosher" (ie okay and clean and appropriate) place. *That* to me is slightly off. Although I do see how it's filling a necessary niche, yadda yadda yadda.
Okay, I'll stop picking on you. You didn't really mean "halachic" in your third comment, that's all. :)
ReplyDeleteChoosing to go is more a matter of hashkafa and personal preference.
Agreed.
When I said "kosher" in my second comment, I was referring to the idea of a bar, which is generally thought of as a place that Jews don't frequent, being made into a "kosher" (ie okay and clean and appropriate) place. *That* to me is slightly off.
I understood that. I think G was referring primarily to the comment of anon about "why does this have a hechsher?", though noting that kosher is a bad term to bandy around for hashkafic issues.
I don't think it's a place Jews don't frequent (heck, the Gemara talks about going to them) because it's a bar, but because bars are often seedy, etc. People go on dates to lounges et al and order drinks; this isn't all that different. It's probably going to be more upscale, more full, and more Jewish. It has food, and it also has a bar - it lets people have options.
As I said to a co-worker, its greatest use will be for those who want/need to spend time with co-workers. Now they have a place to do so that fits under their own kashrus standards and a more comfortable clientele while not sacrificing from what their colleagues are used to.
You didn't really mean "halachic" in your third comment, that's all. :)
ReplyDeleteGrr! Let's look back at that, shall we?
And besides, choosing how you spend your time *is* an halachic and hashkafic decision.
Choosing how you spend your time in a GENERAL sense, not necessarily referring to this one eatery. Or even to eating/drinking specifically. In this particular case, halachically it's kosher (there is very acceptable certification) (unless there are halachos about not drinking w/ gentiles. I'm not familiar enough to say anything definite). The hashkafa aspect is more personal. In general though, when picking an activity, one would hopefully look to make sure that said activity is both halachically and hashkafically acceptable.
I don't think it's a place Jews don't frequent (heck, the Gemara talks about going to them) because it's a bar, but because bars are often seedy, etc. People go on dates to lounges et al and order drinks; this isn't all that different. It's probably going to be more upscale, more full, and more Jewish. It has food, and it also has a bar - it lets people have options.
As I said to a co-worker, its greatest use will be for those who want/need to spend time with co-workers. Now they have a place to do so that fits under their own kashrus standards and a more comfortable clientele while not sacrificing from what their colleagues are used to.
Agreed.
not necessarily referring to this one eatery
ReplyDeleteAhhh, okay. So we agree. :)
GAH! Fine! We agree! Happy? :P
ReplyDelete:)
Hashkofah aside for a moment, we're talking reality. Jews drink, they go to bars, hang out with friends and work colleagues and usually do it in non kosher bars.
ReplyDeleteYou all may argue until you're blue in the face as to whether it should be or shouldn't be, but that is all academic. It is. Jews do.
So, instead of going to a place where kosher Jews cannot eat, or maybe will decide that the chips are "the most kosher" thing they can eat, why not just go to a place where they can all eat and not worry about treif.
So many of you are talking about ideals and the way some think things ought to be, Clubhouse seems to be building a business on the way things actually are.
I know that few will admit to questionable behavior, so most will get all high and mighty on the ills of a kosher bar, but why not first address the more pressing issues of the day - like the fact that we even have a term such as "tefillin date".
I'd sooner want my frum kids eating in a kosher bar.
By the way - I assume the raw bar reference speaks of tuna and salmon, not much else.
B'tai U'von and l'chaim.