G. Nature is one of two things: Intelligence or accident. There is no third alternative. They actually are saying: "Accident plans ahead"; "Accident does nothing without purpose."
A. They do not say that Nature is mere accident. They call it Adaptation.
G. What difference does a new name make? Adaptation is the result of either Intelligence or accident. Is it an accident that the seeds are protected from eaters by their being coated with a slippery mucus, or by being made bitter, or by being covered by hard cases? Or is it an accident that the unripe fruit is green, and is held tightly by the tree; and that only when ripe does the fruit become colored, and then only on the outside of its skin; and that the tree then releases its grip? Adaptation, or whatever term they may use to denote processes of accident, cannot make purposeful arrangements. Without a great Intelligence in control, how could a seed come into being? If one finds a watch in the wilderness, would he attribute it to anything other than an intelligent mind? Such attitudes are possible only when men live in a dreamworld of unreality.
A. But perhaps Life is different. A watch is lifeless, but maybe Life can perform such achievements.
E. That is but another name. The choice must still be made: Life is either accident or Intelligence. To say it is neither would be an evasion.
Wednesday, September 09, 2009
A Brilliant Accident, or Utter Brilliance
I loved this post at Chana's. Excerpt:
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Huh? It's like she's never heard of Darwin.
ReplyDeleteexcuuuuuuuuuuuse me!!!
ReplyDeleteI know i've been off the reservation for a time but i still do not appreciate the appropriation of my handle, even as an abbreviation of someone else's name...objection stated for the record.
My response.
ReplyDeleteJA - You just miss it.
ReplyDeleteG - Blame R' Miller. :)
JA - Will check out when I have a few. My Google Reader is now at 1K.
I love Chana but this is just a re-hash of the statistics/complexity argument. I hate to be devil's advocate here since I am a devout believer in God and His creation of the universe, but evolutionary purists have refuted this argument by saying that 'miniscule probability' does not refute 'possibility'.
ReplyDeleteSudden random mutations that favor reproduction will continue to reproduce into the future. Those mutations which are more favorable to reproduction will undergo natural selection and be more likely to produce more of ‘their own’. Environmental niches will also cause diversification which result in different species - selected by nature to survive in a particular environment. IOW as miniscule as the probability numbers are it is still possible. V'Ho Rayah - it happened!
Harry - Not at all true. This has nothing to do with statistics, but the "why".
ReplyDeleteThis has nothing to do with statistics, but the "why".
ReplyDeleteI think the following line shows that it does.
Is it an accident that the seeds are protected from eaters by their being coated with a slippery mucus, or by being made bitter, or by being covered by hard cases? Or is it an accident that the unripe fruit is green, and is held tightly by the tree; and that only when ripe does the fruit become colored, and then only on the outside of its skin; and that the tree then releases its grip? Adaptation, or whatever term they may use to denote processes of accident, cannot make purposeful arrangements. Without a great Intelligence in control, how could a seed come into being?
IOW -accidents like this are a statistical improbabilty
No - the emphasis is on the why does it release when ripe, why are seeds protected, why are unripe fruits a color that blends. Not on the statistical likelihood.
ReplyDelete"why does it release when ripe, why are seeds protected, why are unripe fruits a color that blends."
ReplyDeleteBecause these are traits that get more fruit eaten by animals and more seeds scattered on the earth to produce more fruit trees. It's natural selection.
And, as I suspect you know, natural selection doesn't say that "accidents plan ahead" but that what you see today is the stepwise progression of successful gambits of the ancestors of modern species. The plants neither "knew" or "planned" these gambits, but novel traits arise at a predictable rate and those that succeeded remained while those that failed did not.
Is it sufficient to call your excerpt a straw man?
ReplyDeleteAnd, as I suspect you know, natural selection doesn't say that "accidents plan ahead" but that what you see today is the stepwise progression of successful gambits of the ancestors of modern species. The plants neither "knew" or "planned" these gambits, but novel traits arise at a predictable rate and those that succeeded remained while those that failed did not.
In order for natural selection to exist, there has to be some way of plants and animals knowing they need to behave a certain way or change their behavior. Seen most clearly with plants - that means there has to be some intelligence behind the way they perform. And since plants have no intelligence of their own, that points to an Intelligent Being.
OP - But that's just it - why would they be that way? Why would anything make a gambit in the first place? Why would it wish to self-protect, why would it wish to create more of itself? Etc. etc.
ReplyDeleteErachet,
ReplyDelete"In order for natural selection to exist, there has to be some way of plants and animals knowing they need to behave a certain way or change their behavior."
No there doesn't. Plants mutate in a thousand different ways - and most of these are not successful. They die. Natural selection picks up on the handful of successful traits and these become dominant in the population.
This is what natural selection is.
Ezzie,
"But that's just it - why would they be that way? Why would anything make a gambit in the first place? Why would it wish to self-protect, why would it wish to create more of itself? Etc. etc."
The whole point of life is to reproduce itself - it's hardwired in the genes. It doesn't "wish" anything. The only type of life that exists or can exist is that which is successful at staying alive and reproducing. This principle is the foundation for all the variations of life we find on earth.
The "gambits" are just mutations in one form or another and are not decisions being made by the organism.
Read why evolution is true. It's hard to imagine anyone would still have these questions after reading that book.
ReplyDelete