When I was younger, and in my more vulnerable state, I was often susceptible to the instructions of other girls in my bunk at camp as to what was proper halacha. Afraid not to be as "frum" as they seemed to be, I followed their instructions, too scared to ask any questions lest I appear less knowledgeable than they. As I grew older, and wiser, it came to my attention that most of what they had told me were . . . well, "total and complete fabrications" is a little strong (and often not really applicable - some of them are just halacha that is now defunct), so I term these "Bais Yaakov Myths."
So I present, for your edification, the short list:
1. You can't daven in your bedroom.
2. You can't drink water that's been uncovered overnight.
These are the two most common ones that I remember being swayed by. What myths have known you?
You have to wash negel vasser a fourth time on each hand to wash off the remnants from the first three on each hand.
ReplyDeleteI still can't bring myself to drink water that's been uncovered overnight, which surprisingly comes up more often than it should...
ReplyDelete2. You can't drink water that's been uncovered overnight.
ReplyDeleteSHEIDIM!!!!! (sorry, "SHIN DALEDS!!!!!")
Ezzie, the 4th wash is a chumra of the vilna gaon, and that is pretty much the reason that he gives.
ReplyDeleteAnd apple, water overnight used to be a sakanah (danger) because snakes sometimes left venom in the water.
Not myths, but perhaps als not halachah.
and apple, water overnight used to be a sakanah (danger) because snakes sometimes left venom in the water.
ReplyDeleteRight - hence why I wrote "some of them are just halacha that is now defunct" :).
What myths have known you?
ReplyDelete1. That the stories in sefer breishis (Gan Eden, the flood, the Tower of Babel, etc.) are historical.
2. That Moses wrote the Torah.
How old and wise will you be when you recognize the "Orthodox Jewish Myths" for what they are? :-)
Anon - I know, and it made sense; nevertheless, a chumrah, not halacha.
ReplyDeleteThe snake venom one is - today - an actual myth, unless one is in the desert.
JA - You mean as opposed to God writing it? :)
ReplyDeleteAnyway - this post is not for those discussions, upon which I think we know where each of us stand.
"Anyway - this post is not for those discussions, upon which I think we know where each of us stand."
ReplyDeleteIt seemed pretty relevant to me. I think it's exactly analogous. In both cases, you have myths perpetrated by people you trust and look up to, but if you were to step outside that world and look at what everybody else has to say -- let alone doing your own research -- you'd realize you've been bamboozled.
Which shows a stark difference in viewpoints. There's no "outside research" here - this is all internal discussion of customs and the like that have been passed down with little to no authority. What authority there is is disagreed upon. Your examples are ones where any authoritative figure would agree to some degree at least about what happened.
ReplyDeleteJA - okay, you are taking this waaaay out of the realm of the post. The post was just to comment on things that my peers told me that they were incorrect about, not ideological issues.
ReplyDeleteThe post was just to comment on things that my peers told me that they were incorrect about, not ideological issues.
ReplyDeleteI'm not talking about ideological issues either. I'm talking about factual claims that Orthodox Jews taught you that they were incorrect about.
This might be the worst one of all - not to leave shoes upside down because it's "putting the dirt towards Hashem"
ReplyDeleteRaggedy -- What?! I never heard that one...
ReplyDeleteThe one that really drives me nuts is how many BY girls do the bouncy-heel thing after taking three steps forward at the end of amidah. Whoever started teaching that one has a LOT of explaining to do.
P.S. -- The 4th pour is a legit minhag. It's not a halacha, though -- depends whom you follow.
Two of my "favorites":
ReplyDelete1. If you step over someone, you'll stunt their growth.
2. Bnos Yisrael aren't allowed to wear red.
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ReplyDeleteIf you step over someone, you'll stunt their growth.
ReplyDeleteMrs S - good one! i remember girls screaming that we'd have to walk back over them, to "reverse" it.
Oooh, I love the stepping over someone one! That's a classic.
ReplyDeleteYou can't have your back face the Aron, ever. Never mind that half the people in a Beis Medrash do.
ReplyDeletePeople would walk backwards all the way through the Beis.
Even when I used to turn partway (say, Lecho Dodi or when the Torah went by) I'd make sure to spin back on that side so my back never had gone all the way around. Kinda like Stam's undoing the stepping over.
I would appreciate the deletion of blatant kefira posted in the comments (and I go to YU, so I'm far from a kannoi..)
ReplyDeleteThis is obvious, but the necessity of two brachas for mishloach manos.
ReplyDeleteAnon - ?
ReplyDeleteI was referring to this, Ezzie:
ReplyDeleteWhat myths have known you?
1. That the stories in sefer breishis (Gan Eden, the flood, the Tower of Babel, etc.) are historical.
2. That Moses wrote the Torah.
Anon - I see no reason to delete that. If a guy who calls himself Jewish Atheist's claims can so easily sway someone, I think that that person needs to work on his own self a little bit.
ReplyDeleteIt's obviously your call - But I'm not a fan of someone blatantly spitting on my core religious beliefs. For example, I wouldn't go to a Christian site and say Yoshka wasn't god etc...
ReplyDeleteAnon - Understood; but I don't find it a threat or blatantly offensive (particularly as I have had many conversations in the past with JA and this is somewhat in that context), and shy away from deleting comments.
ReplyDeletethe davening in ur bedroom thing- i heard thats just if ur bed is unmade.
ReplyDeleteThe stepping over someone is a total classic. I'm sure I have plenty more, just can't think of them right now.
ReplyDeleteMyth:
ReplyDeleteYou HAVE to stand up while the Aron Kodesh is open.
...or during Kaddish.
ReplyDeleteMyth:
ReplyDeleteYou cannot talk until you have had wine from kiddush...and you MUST drink that wine.
Myth:
ReplyDeleteThe water from Mayim Achronim MUST be removed from the table before saying Birchat Hamazon.
And you can't talk until the candle is out from Havdalah.
ReplyDeleteAnd you can't talk until the candle is out from Havdalah.
ReplyDeleteIs that really a myth?
You have to stack seforim in the reverse order of when they were written - Chumash on top of Navi on top of Mishnayos...
ReplyDeleteAlso, you can't fold a printed sefer.
SaraK - It's the drinking that matters if anything.
ReplyDeletehow many BY girls do the bouncy-heel thing after taking three steps forward at the end of amidah.
ReplyDeleteNot just BY girls!
Also, I was told in camp one year not to leave the windows open because shaidim can come in.
Also, if you think too hard about it you can get possessed by a dibuk, especially if you're alone in a dark corner (that might have just been a ghost story, I don't think we were supposed to walk away from that actually believing it but it scared me for some time afterward)
Also, if you put challah crumbs under your pillow, sleep on them, and then look in the mirror, you'll see what you're going to look like when you're old (or who you're going to marry, I forget which) but you also lose ten (seven?) years of your life.
If you put flour on the floor by your bed at night then you'll see chicken feet footprints of shaidim
(Wow, I seem to have heard a lot of ghost stories as a kid)
Careful people...don't mix up halachik myth wih kabbalah.
ReplyDeleteIt's a thin line, I know, but it's there.
Myth:
You MUST dip challah in salt
And you can't talk until the candle is out from Havdalah.
ReplyDeleteHavdala! I can't believe no one mentioned this yet! The guy you marry will be as tall as you hold the havdala candle.
And you can't talk until the candle is out from Havdalah.
ReplyDeleteIf girls drink havdala wine/grape juice they'll grow a beard.
ALso the 3 step bouncing thing - i was told it has NO SOURCE that can be found anywhere.
Apple - bet you didnt expect such a response ;)
Oh, G, yeah, you're right. Sorry about that.
ReplyDeleteG - Which ones? So hard to differentiate! Plus, all of them were presented as halacha to me growing up, though some that I'm not mentioning we knew were garbage.
ReplyDeleteAlso - you mean to dip or you mean specifically salt?
The guy you marry will be as tall as you hold the havdala candle.
ReplyDeleteYes! And on a related note, if you finish reciting the whole "Pitoom hak'toret" (after Ein Kelokeinu) before the shaliach tzibbur does, three times in a row, you'll get married within a year...
That's more segula territory...
ReplyDeleteThat's more segula territory...
ReplyDeleteFair enough. (Although a post on segulot would certainly include its own fair share of myths...)
I learned from a well-known posek that you're supposed to dip your bread in salt after the bracha. Why is that a myth?
ReplyDeleteAnd standing during kadish? Isn't that halacha as well?
Myth:
ReplyDeleteYou HAVE to stand up while the Aron Kodesh is open.
That's a myth? Really?
...or during Kaddish.
Only if you're Sfardi! Ashkenzim do stand during kaddish.
Actually a machlokes. Generally the psak is that one should certainly not sit if one is already standing, but one need not stand up if one is already sitting, IIRC.
ReplyDeleteThe halacha aspect, such as it is, would be to have salt on the table as a parallel to the salt that was on the Mizbeyach
ReplyDeleteThe dipping aspect is 100% kabbalah. See the last part of this parshah piece:
http://www.yu.edu/riets/torah/enayim/archives/issue25/articles25.htm
So when you are in shul and sitting, and someone stands up to make kaddish, you remain sitting?
ReplyDeleteThe halacha aspect, such as it is, would be to have salt on the table as a parallel to the salt that was on the Mizbeyach
ReplyDeleteG beat me to it, I was about to say the same thing, you only have to have the salt on the table. In my family we don't dip the challah in salt.
>Myth:
ReplyDeleteYou HAVE to stand up while the Aron Kodesh is open.
>>That's a myth? Really?
Yup...See here http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5761/shelech.html
Again...this is not to say that one cannot or should not do different - only about what one MUST do.
ReplyDeleteSometimes.
ReplyDeleteMost kaddeishim not an issue anyway - before Shemonei Esrei, after Yishtabach, after Aleinu, etc.
A lot of these myths may dhave some practical sources which do not follow over now.
ReplyDelete(I guess "defunct"- but not really.)
The reason I heard for the 3 bounces after Shemone Esrei is that it originates with people who finish their private Shemone Esrei just when the chazzan is saying Kedusha, so they just do "Kadosh, kadosh, kadosh" right then after they take their 3 steps forwards.
Also, some of these are kabbalah ideas or have their sources in halacha but are misunderstood. I wouldn't be so quick to label them as quackery! (I will try to do research, as I don't have the off-hand knowledge.)
I'm amazed that the kadish one is only a myth. When I was sitting shiva for my son, every time the men said kadish (in a different room), all the women stopped talking and stood up. Even when I was nursing the baby, I would stand up with him. If I had only known this "halacha" before, it would have been a little easier.
ReplyDeleteG - Hmm. Enlightening.
ReplyDeleteEzzie - interesting.
Can I just say ... I have TOTALLY proved the Brainless Post Theory with this post.
AT - Most Ashkenazim tend to hold that one *should* stand, hence why that probably happened. If you were in a different room, however, I don't see why they were all doing it.
ReplyDeleteApple - Not quite - that is generally that the worse a post is, the more comments it gets. This was more a fun post than a bad post. :)
Nooooo ... the BPT states that a post that requires little or no thinking to craft will get many comments.
ReplyDeleteBut it took you like a week to post it, and you edited it! :) That seems like much thought.
ReplyDeleteOf course, if that is the definition, I guess the theory has expanded since I first came across it.
This also proves how complicated fantasy football and football are, as they garner little to no commentary.
But it took you like a week to post it, and you edited it! :) That seems like much thought.
ReplyDeleteThat's because I totally forgot it was in the drafts until today!
This also proves how complicated fantasy football and football are, as they garner little to no commentary.
ReplyDeleteNo no. There are actually THREE BPTs:
1. Bad Post Theory
2. Boring Post Theory
3. Brainless Post Theory
Guess which one the sports ones qualify for? :P
That's because I totally forgot it was in the drafts until today!
ReplyDeleteUh huh. :P
No no. There are actually THREE BPTs:
1. Bad Post Theory
2. Boring Post Theory
3. Brainless Post Theory
Guess which one the sports ones qualify for? :P
Well, we've excluded (1) - it would get lots of negative comments. And (3) - it would get lots of comments. And it can't be (2), because clearly, football is so exciting it requires its own channel and has many billions of dollars a year devoted to it and its coverage. :) It must fall under the 4th BPT: Brilliant Post Theory, where a post is just too good to be commented on.
Oh, was that football? I was wondering what you were babbling about in that post!
ReplyDeleteInspired [re. heel-bouncing] that would apply when davening with a minyan. Girls have been taught to do this in their classrooms, and they continue to do it everywhere. (I observed this in shul on R"H, well before kedusha)
ReplyDeleteRe. girls wearing red: This is from that tzava'ah that many people keep because they're not sure whether or not it applies to them.
Blah blah :).
ReplyDelete"AT - Most Ashkenazim tend to hold that one *should* stand, hence why that probably happened. If you were in a different room, however, I don't see why they were all doing it."
ReplyDeleteBecause we could still hear them from where we were sitting. Sometimes. The other times, we didn't hear the actual kaddish but we heard everyone's Amen yehei shmei rabbahs so the women all joined in. I did question then whether we had to stand up if we couldn't hear the shliach tzibur--I even asked if we were *allowed* to answer if we couldn't hear him--but everyone assured me that as long as we knew they were saying it, we had to stand up and answer.
Seems to me that what is being mixed together are halachas, myths, segulas, general minhagim and personal minhagim. Teachers are not above confusing the above and assuming that because their family has a particular minhag, whether they know why or not, then everyone should/does have that minhag. My daughters were taught that coffee on Shabbos requires a kli revii. No halacha given to them, just the understanding that they need to do it this way. Ever tried to convince a 6 year old that her morah is wrong? The havdalah stuff is not myth but definitely segula. Re the standing while the aron is open, we were told that it was kavod for the Torah, that when you can see it you stand. But then why do we sit when the Torah is being read? We can see it then too. Not sure where this one falls, but you cannot have a birthday cake or occasion cake on Shabbos that has writing on it because it is forbidden to cut up the writing.
ReplyDeleteProfk - as far as I know, that last one is halacha--you can't cut the writing because it is mochek.
ReplyDeleteNot sure where this one falls, but you cannot have a birthday cake or occasion cake on Shabbos that has writing on it because it is forbidden to cut up the writing.
ReplyDeleteThat would be the melacha of mochek, erasing.
apple - Jinx!
ReplyDeleteThis is from that tzava'ah that many people keep because they're not sure whether or not it applies to them.
ReplyDeleteAre you referring to the tzava'ah of R' Yehudah HaChassid? There's an interesting article about that tzava'ah here (on page 2). The money quote is from the Ta’amei HaMinhagim:
"And there is a well-known saying that if the Asseret HaDibrot had been written in the tzava’ah of R’ Yehudah HaChassid, they would be observed scrupulously.”
I just remembered one. My cousin once told me that before going to sleep, you have to kiss the mezuzah 3 times. I did that one for a very long time--it was my husband that told me to cut it out.
ReplyDeleteI'm ashkenazi and my family's minhag was not to stand for kaddish. Of course look how I turned out. ;-)
ReplyDeletehere's one:
ReplyDeleteif you sleep in your clothing, you MUST change into something different before you can daven.
Should have made myself clearer. The "myth" is that you can't have a cake with writing on it on Shabbos. Yes, it is mochek if you actually slice through the writing. But it is not held to be mochek if you are careful to cut between the letters. And if you cut a piece so that all the letters are on that piece you may eat that piece, since eating is not mochek, even if the letters are disappearing.
ReplyDeleteIf you wear your shirt inside out you forget the torah you learnt
ReplyDeleteOooh, ooh, I have one more. You are not allowed to take 2 articles of clothing off at the same time.
ReplyDeleteYou are not allowed to take 2 articles of clothing off at the same time.
ReplyDeleteNot allowed, or unable???
not supposed to, whatever
ReplyDeleteIf the clasp of your necklace moves to the front, it means your bashert is thinking of you. (that's a bizarre one)
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteIf the clasp of your necklace moves to the front, it means your bashert is thinking of you. (that's a bizarre one)
i love this one -- especially when my classmates would kiss the clasp and say "go back to learning" as they moved it back where it belonged.
i *wish* i was making this up.
The snake venom in your water thing was probably a misunderstanding - people didn't know what bacteria was. Since water wasn't chlorinated, it was likely to get filled with bacteria/fungus and therefore be deadly.
ReplyDeleteErachet & Stam - WHAT!?!?!
ReplyDeleteDouble Z-- like the post says, BAIS YAAKOV myths :)
ReplyDeleteErachet wasn't BY. :)
ReplyDeleteAnd still - geeeez. I like the "go back to learning" line, it's funny. Ya know, if they were making a joke of it.
of course they were making a joke of it!!!! sheesh all these ppl are making BY girls look bad. half of these things no one actually believed in!
ReplyDeleteoh no. a classmate. lol, eety i didnt mean OUR class - im not sure if ive heard it in our class or not.
ReplyDeleteof course u have!!! i even did it! but OBVIOUSLY as a joke! btw- i did it in front of my sister (t) the other day as a joke- and she was like WHATTTTT?!?!!?!?!?!
ReplyDeleteeety - i was thinking more along the lines of boro park friends and camp... pretty funny about your sis though.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how many people actually believed that, but I remember first hearing about it in...fourth grade or something. It's one of those things little kids really do believe in until they become...preteens, and then they're unsure and probably fakely believe in it, but only to themselves, and while also realizing that it's not actually true. And then once they're actual teenagers, not only do they not believe in it anymore, but it's babyish if anyone does.
ReplyDeleteOh, and btw, MYTHS DO NOT ONLY EXIST IN BY CLASSROOMS.
ReplyDeleteTrust me.
Sorry folks, the whole cake w/ letters thing is not as cut and dried as you might think.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5763/noach.html
While current custom is to be overly careful it is far from being the ruling of all major poskim.
yeh most jewish bakeries will put the words on a "cracker" thing on top of the cake, or on plastic.... that can be removed before cutting
ReplyDeleteThank you, G. We just had this come up very recently, and I recalled that not all poskim hold that it's a problem, but a couple others did not know what I was talking about.
ReplyDeleteThat kissing the clasp of your necklace thing was SOOOO prevalent when I was in HS. But now we are veering off from myths and into stupidities.
ReplyDeleteyou forget the all-time classic,
ReplyDelete"you will go blind if you look at the kohanim during birkas kohanim"
I used to think my eyes were hurting because I would accidentally see (we sat in the front row middle).
ReplyDeleteSorry folks, the whole cake w/ letters thing is not as cut and dried as you might think.
ReplyDeleteCut and dried ... ::groan::
p.s. 99 comments - i rest my case
aaaaaaaaand 100!
ReplyDeleteAbout the Kohanim thing...when I was younger I sometimes liked to test things so I dared myself to chance a look once or twice, just to see what would happen. I was always somewhat relieved that lightening didn't strike. :P
ReplyDeleteWe just had this come up very recently, [Ezzie] -- Fortunately, your chef thought of this in advance and would have offered to cut the cake herself as per her own family's minhag. :-P
ReplyDeletei *wish* i was making this up. Me too! ME TOO!
Anyway, I wouldn't consider this a halacha myth as much as a superstition. I think if these girls' teachers would spend a little time teaching the prohibition against nichush, maybe in the place of one of the baseless minhagim in their curriculum, it would be beneficial.
I think if these girls' teachers would spend a little time teaching the prohibition against nichush, maybe in the place of one of the baseless minhagim in their curriculum, it would be beneficial.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, a lot of this stuff - like the necklace thing - did not all come from teachers (at least, not in my experience). They often came just from other girls, word of mouth sort of thing. The way any superstition or myth spreads around when you're younger.
>Sorry folks, the whole cake w/ letters thing is not as cut and dried as you might think.
ReplyDelete>>Cut and dried ... ::groan::
I'm officially insulted that you think that was intentional.
Actually, you aren't supposed to look directly at the kohanim's upraised hands while Bircas Kohanim is taking place.
ReplyDeleteBut, I've never heard that you could go blind from it.
Maybe someone could enlighten me- where does the myth about girls not drinking havdala wine come from?
I've been in cases where girls have made havdala, but not used wine. (I think there might be a Magen Avraham on it.)
NMF--There are definitely sources for that but it's not halacha. One reason is that Chava became a niddah on Motzei Shabbos and the wine is like the dam nidah. There are other reason brought down but I can't remember them right now.
ReplyDeleteMy humble apologies.
ReplyDelete"You are not allowed to take 2 articles of clothing off at the same time."
ReplyDeleteMy husband did learn this (I believe in Kitzur Shulchan Orech)
Eh, Bas Melech- what's nichush?
ReplyDeleteAbout the kiss the clasp thing- personally, I think that's NNNOOOOOTTTTTT apporpriate to be discussed on blogosphere (or at the very least, embarassing), but I only heard it in the summer of tenth grade in Camp Shira, where I was told that in the summer the refrain was, "Go back to basketball." WHAT A STUPID TEENAGE MYTH aaaaaaaaahhhh.. (but being a terrible romantic I adopted the "minhag" immediately) (and went back to playing basketbal myself, since as I recall, tha was where it happened.)
Apple- congrats! Over 100 comments! That's a record! :)
Nichush is superstition. As in "lo tinachashu" (erm, citation, anyone?)
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, I know that teachers aren't responsible for many of the myths. But they definitely are responsible for many of them, and they also should teach some facts so the kiddies won't be so vulnerable to myths.
regarding the duchaning thing -- once my best friend's older sister (since she was older than us, of course she knew everything) told us that the reason she wore glasses was because she once looked at the kohanim during duchaning. it never made sense to me -- my father's a kohen -- so did that mean i could no longer look at my dad when he gave me a bracha on friday night? same kohen, same bracha...
ReplyDeleteThe reason for not looking at the Kohain's hands is that the shchina "looks through" the spaces in the fingers during the bracha. (I think this is learned form the pasuk of "meitzitz min hacharakim" in Shir HaShirim). It is inappropriate to look at the schina so we don't. Kohanim themsleves are not even supposed to look which is why they either close theor eyes or drape theor tallis over their hands in a way that thay can't see them.
ReplyDelete