tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post6857033127152521524..comments2024-03-02T03:29:09.759-05:00Comments on SerandEz and Friends: Klal PerspectivesEzziehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-36783378155302998642011-10-04T18:28:38.678-04:002011-10-04T18:28:38.678-04:00The reason there are so many problems seems pretty...The reason there are so many problems seems pretty clear to me: <br /><br />You're all New Yorkers.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I'll show myself out now.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-29707202105110608422011-10-04T16:44:39.806-04:002011-10-04T16:44:39.806-04:00Anyone who intends to get real things done has to ...Anyone who intends to get real things done has to bob and weave a little in the presentation so as not to appear threatening.<br /><br />...as opposed to some flamers in blogs who delight in their own aggressiveness but don't exactly plan to move mountains.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-65639450569423724312011-10-04T15:20:21.310-04:002011-10-04T15:20:21.310-04:00I just read Rabbi Hauer's article (chose that ...I just read Rabbi Hauer's article (chose that one particularly because of my great respect for Rabbi Hauer) and thought it was VERY on target and not apologetic at all about pointing out some issues that are in place in the Orthodox community. I am looking forward to reading the rest of the journal.Shoshanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07365142117481675663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-79685944954310877552011-10-04T13:40:16.809-04:002011-10-04T13:40:16.809-04:00Agreed, and it is certainly a delicate balance. An...Agreed, and it is certainly a delicate balance. And yes, some will shy away if they don't want to hear it... but those people would also likely reject outright if it were harsher because of "tone". The objective is to get the reasonable majority who perhaps have to get used to the possibility of an idea, before having it presented as "hello, this is a major problem!!" <br /><br />I'll have to see the example when I get to it.Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-17433734104150617922011-10-04T13:35:42.814-04:002011-10-04T13:35:42.814-04:00Fair enough. I just have the feeling that sometime...Fair enough. I just have the feeling that sometimes the humility and caveats, if it goes too far, give the person you are trying to reach an out from considering the argument. I know that it's a delicate balance, but in this case since these are *all* establishment figures, and not closet troublemakers or heretics, there is a chance that their words can be taken at face value. When they themselves slightly take it back, that may be all that gets heard from those who don't want to accept unpleasant truths. But I think most of all, the fact that they felt it <i>necessary</i> to write in such a way is a little pathetic. IIRC one of them, after writing about divorce and other problems in marriage that certain lifestyle choices may be causing, he dilutes it all by suggesting that this lifestyle is the best, the happiest, etc.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-6819868269456944652011-10-04T12:03:20.297-04:002011-10-04T12:03:20.297-04:00Softening blows in general isn't as bad - I co...Softening blows in general isn't as bad - I could see that being a style particularly for a first edition to draw people in and plant the seeds of ideas in their minds, rather than coming off as a direct affront to what some people may think coming in. You don't want to turn people off or away from the discussion by seeming too blunt.<br /><br />That said, I'll pay attention to the others as I continue. I thought that the questions posed and Bane's in particular were very straightforward.Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-7390878139136747752011-10-04T11:57:56.140-04:002011-10-04T11:57:56.140-04:00Was me.Was me.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-90973473834365025372011-10-04T11:57:39.456-04:002011-10-04T11:57:39.456-04:00They were the least critical. Read Rabbi Adlerstei...They were the least critical. Read Rabbi Adlerstein's, for example, and his many caveats about how he could be wrong, his statements should probably be challenged. While these are all good points, they are also meant to soften the blow and be more tentative. I don't remember others offhand, but I suggest when you read the others you pay attention to how many of them apparently mean to cushion the blows. Maybe we're thinking of "sugarcoating" differently.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-66890320127727219682011-10-04T11:20:28.007-04:002011-10-04T11:20:28.007-04:00Really? I didn't think so, though I've onl...Really? I didn't think so, though I've only read the first few so far. Bane certainly didn't sugarcoat, and I didn't feel Zwiebel did either.<br /><br />They aren't speaking in "bashing" tones, either, and they are noting that there are positive sides to things, but ultimately they were focused nicely on what needs to be done (particularly Bane).Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-25373101239464748432011-10-04T11:17:05.606-04:002011-10-04T11:17:05.606-04:00"this will not be a publication dedicated to ..."this will not be a publication dedicated to either sugarcoating the problems we face as a community"<br /><br />Funny, I saw major doses of sugar in nearly every article. There was some serious introspection and criticism going on, but almost of all of it was surrounded with caveats and reminders that we are, of course, amazing. Perish the thought otherwise. It doesn't detract from the bitter pill which is still very much present, but it's kind of a sad commentary that such sugarcoating was intuited as necessary by almost all the writers, considering that the publication is apparently meant for movers and shakers much more than the masses.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com