tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post2131085062926690205..comments2024-03-02T03:29:09.759-05:00Comments on SerandEz and Friends: Poor Daughters of MineEzziehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-91981986353096650112008-07-06T03:26:00.000-04:002008-07-06T03:26:00.000-04:00Hey, guys, whaddaya mean- He *will* provide.I can'...Hey, guys, whaddaya mean- He *will* provide.<BR/><BR/>I can't believe what I'm hearing- mamash apikorsus....Mindy Schaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10561579952913345322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-3180127932774989032008-07-05T23:38:00.000-04:002008-07-05T23:38:00.000-04:00The ones who talk like the examples in your post? ...The ones who talk like the examples in your post? Generally, yeah. I've only encountered that kind of hyper-exclusionary attitude from people who don't have a college degree. Because the ones who do, or who are married to people who do, are often not *as* extreme.the applehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756184353010645018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-75028375169419836332008-07-04T17:48:00.000-04:002008-07-04T17:48:00.000-04:00Dag - (shrug) I don't know that that's a reason to...Dag - (shrug) I don't know that that's a reason to stop, but you know your situation best.<BR/><BR/>Serach - I feel like I've heard that story before! :P<BR/><BR/>Apple - Is that true? I know it's true for many, but is it that high?<BR/><BR/><I>Also, teachers often think that their opinion on higher education (not just on what constitutes a good Jewish family structure) should supersede the parents' wishes, which also leads to a heck of a lot of issues.</I><BR/><BR/>Agreed.<BR/><BR/>Anon - <I>WIth the help of Hashem, we will give somewhere in the area of 30K in Tzedakkah this year.<BR/><BR/>Not ONE RED CENT to the "TORAH TRUE" Yeshiva system.<BR/><BR/>There are any fine organizations such as Bikur Cholim, Tomche Shabbos, ECHO, etc that can use money to help the needy.<BR/><BR/>There are many fine Yeshivos that are serving the non-mainstream (ugh, hate that label) kids that need help.<BR/><BR/>Put your money there. That's where mine goes.</I><BR/><BR/>Excellent. That's how it needs to go.<BR/><BR/><I>Someone please explain to me, where is the money SUPPOSED TO COME FROM? I mean, it is a mitzvah to have many children, (Gd willing), but how do you raise them? Gd provides? I am so confused. Please. What does this teach people? Get what you want and expect that it will be paid for?</I><BR/><BR/>"God will provide" is always the answer they give. Sickening.Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-59863701777216499112008-07-04T17:10:00.000-04:002008-07-04T17:10:00.000-04:00Someone please explain to me, where is the money S...Someone please explain to me, where is the money SUPPOSED TO COME FROM? I mean, it is a mitzvah to have many children, (Gd willing), but how do you raise them? Gd provides? I am so confused. Please. What does this teach people? Get what you want and expect that it will be paid for?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-3706328851572792442008-07-04T14:57:00.000-04:002008-07-04T14:57:00.000-04:00WIth the help of Hashem, we will give somewhere in...WIth the help of Hashem, we will give somewhere in the area of 30K in Tzedakkah this year.<BR/><BR/>Not ONE RED CENT to the "TORAH TRUE" Yeshiva system.<BR/><BR/>There are any fine organizations such as Bikur Cholim, Tomche Shabbos, ECHO, etc that can use money to help the needy.<BR/><BR/>There are many fine Yeshivos that are serving the non-mainstream (ugh, hate that label) kids that need help.<BR/><BR/>Put your money there. That's where mine goes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-22275529447850408632008-07-04T11:46:00.000-04:002008-07-04T11:46:00.000-04:00Most of these "educators" don't have more than a h...Most of these "educators" don't have more than a high school or seminary education . . . which often precludes their ability to actually TEACH, but that's another story.<BR/><BR/>Also, teachers often think that their opinion on higher education (not just on what constitutes a good Jewish family structure) should supersede the parents' wishes, which also leads to a heck of a lot of issues.the applehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756184353010645018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-67703807509327250922008-07-04T07:53:00.000-04:002008-07-04T07:53:00.000-04:00Serach, Wow. I would love to slap that woman silly...Serach, Wow. I would love to slap that woman silly.<BR/><BR/>If she'd said "well, in this school, we don't hold by that shita" then I could have dealt with it, but to call your father an apikores...<BR/><BR/>I just despise people who don't know their sources so they dismiss anything that they haven't specifically been told as apikorsus.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-60905446662307572072008-07-04T00:38:00.000-04:002008-07-04T00:38:00.000-04:00OMG, Serach, my salvation!!!!!!!!!!!!!I am an ince...OMG, Serach, my salvation!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR/><BR/><BR/>I am an incessant singer, who also has huge dreams of performing, and I was actually wondering about this issue--<BR/>I am glad there is that shitah.<BR/><BR/>Wow, Serach, you saved my life!!!<BR/><BR/>Now to inform the rest of klal Yisrael....<BR/><BR/>:)Mindy Schaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10561579952913345322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-56183404108944435662008-07-03T23:41:00.000-04:002008-07-03T23:41:00.000-04:00who is educating these "educators"? Sreiousely do...who is educating these "educators"? Sreiousely do people preaching this none-sense actually believe it in their hearts or are they worrying about impressions? I digress with an interesting story. I was in 8th grade in an yeshivah that used to cater to all "types", but once the principle died, the new administration did what they thought the deceased principle would have wanted done. So it became a yeshivish hashkafa with a variety of students.So it was 8th grde and we were discussing "kol eisha"- stupid me, opened my mouth and told me teacher that there is a sheetah by rav hirsh that for shevach (praise) to G-d, on may sing in front of a male. She told me the next day that she asked her (narow minded) husband and he said the sheetah did not exist. Subsequently, my dad produced for me a sheet of paper, which I, in turn ,handed over to my teacher, which explained where and by whom, the sheetah as explained, she never heard of it so it did not exist. Adamant, I kept pushing, and at PTA she told my mom, to her face, that she could not believe that my father would believe such a sheetah, because only an "apicores" would believe such a thingQ!Serachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03143785332810460759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-45463313347709017352008-07-03T22:31:00.000-04:002008-07-03T22:31:00.000-04:00Ezz, b/c they wouldn’t leave me alone...they’d ca...Ezz, b/c they wouldn’t leave me alone...they’d call and harass and bother...they wouldn’t stop. I called it quits when I ran a little test that proved a certain Rav's minions were tracking my posts on his behalf....DAGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09475799835170867139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-22346708081476702482008-07-03T21:14:00.000-04:002008-07-03T21:14:00.000-04:00Now THAT is an IDEA!!Now THAT is an IDEA!!Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-48894099928842025082008-07-03T21:08:00.000-04:002008-07-03T21:08:00.000-04:00Ezzie;One thing I wonder about wuite often is why ...Ezzie;<BR/><BR/>One thing I wonder about wuite often is why we never seem to hear our leaders debate issues directly and in a public manner.<BR/><BR/>In a comment on blogosphere some time back, I read how a woman wrote that she was waiting for the day there would be Chareidi TV. Now, I am not a big proponent on too many visual aids in our life because I believe it dulls our cognition and pro-active activity, but the thought planted a seed in my mind.<BR/><BR/>Then while reading your post about the debate between Leitch, Bissinger, and Matt, the idea came to me: Why in the world don't we have something like that for the great Rabbis of our generation?<BR/><BR/>Why can't there a platform where leaders of every community would get together and show the nation that they respect each other, each other's scholarship and achievements if they don't agree on hashkafic issues, and discuss the things which rip them apart? We have enough sinas chinam as it is. Has anyone ever thought about the fact that while, as Ezzie points out, there is still communication between the common people on all levels, there is no- at least, not any that the klal is aware of- communication or discussion between our leaders? <BR/><BR/>Doesn't anyone find that a bit... odd? This would seem to represent that we are not one family...<BR/><BR/>Methinks an oration like the one the- what was it- great and magnanimous G, did he call himself? :)- parodied a few posts ago would do the trick. You would think the tzaros we have these days would open our eyes...Mindy Schaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10561579952913345322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-84669652083403158152008-07-03T20:21:00.000-04:002008-07-03T20:21:00.000-04:00SaraK - I have a feeling that teachers like this o...SaraK - I have a feeling that teachers like this often feel they can "get away" with stronger comments in certain crowds, and therefore they do. As "RW" as your BY was, it's still a different set of parents and girls than places in NYC.<BR/><BR/>LWY - Some similar experiences (previously discussed). Yup.<BR/><BR/>G - I was actually wondering if you were going to write something. :)<BR/><BR/>ProfK, G, M - I hear you. I meant a more obvious day-to-day one, where the two sides essentially will simply not have anything to do with one another. I know we're almost there, but I don't know that we are. I think we're all talking about degrees of separation here, not disagreeing.Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-81191504340147381072008-07-03T17:04:00.000-04:002008-07-03T17:04:00.000-04:00ProfK-note the cancelled Big Event.ProfK-<BR/><BR/>note the cancelled Big Event.Mindy Schaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10561579952913345322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-90848311124912972902008-07-03T15:49:00.000-04:002008-07-03T15:49:00.000-04:00We're not heading anywhere--we have arrived.I conc...<I>We're not heading anywhere--we have arrived.</I><BR/><BR/>I concur. <BR/>For the time being this is mostly in NY and it's surrounding areas but, as with all of that fair cities trappings, it is only a matter of time before this show is airing at a community near you.<BR/><BR/>Get you tickets now...it's supposed to be a hell of a show.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-72292525612463285962008-07-03T13:35:00.000-04:002008-07-03T13:35:00.000-04:00Ezzie, we're only "heading for a split in orthodox...Ezzie, we're only "heading for a split in orthodox Judaism?" We're not heading anywhere--we have arrived. The Hareidim in E"Y may be more public in their attempts to eradicate every way of thinking but theirs, but don't kid yourself that the "hareidim" here are any less "zealots" or any less vindictive towards those they openly despise. Those who are being dumped on have yet to fight back in an organized manner, nor have they played their "trump" card--the weapon of weapons--MONEY. Too many of us having pity on members of the hareidi element and opening our wallets. I know one person who continues to give to institutions that wouldn't allow him or his children to cross their threshholds so that he can show that he is doing the right thing, he considers all of Klal as belonging there. And I would imagine those institutions are laughing all the way to the bank.ProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-79669366681738252802008-07-03T12:04:00.000-04:002008-07-03T12:04:00.000-04:00My comment from The Wolf's post:I sincerely hope t...My comment from The Wolf's post:<BR/><BR/>I sincerely hope that there is a special ring in Hell for people who make it a point to pit children against their parents.<BR/><BR/>More and more I see that what once was done out of feelings of Shem Shomayim are now done out self perpetuation, self preservation and self legitimization.<BR/><BR/>I find myself not knowing whether to feel sad or angry.<BR/>---------------------<BR/>I decided to wait until noon today and see if Ezzie would put up a post on this so that I would be prevented from putting up one of my own.<BR/><BR/>Why wait you ask? Well, let's just say that this post was done in a much more calm and thoughtful manner than anything that would have flowed out of MY keyboard on this topic. <BR/>That is really what this issue desreves...although it does leave me feeling somewhat less fulfilled (i'm sure there is a lesson in there for me somehwere but damned if i can find it:)<BR/><BR/>As for all the people out there who questioned why I posted the "teachings" of Rav Balanson and felt that it was disrespectful, not necessary or that he was so over the top as to be irrelevant...PLEASE OPEN YOUR EYES!!!Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-20682609852068641652008-07-03T11:37:00.000-04:002008-07-03T11:37:00.000-04:00I love that attitude of ridiculing the very consti...<I>I love that attitude of ridiculing the very constituency that bankrolls their lifestyle! Where else do you see that (outside of government welfare)? Where else would such a system continue to function?</I><BR/><BR/>I went to a yeshiva, where the Rosh Yeshiva's hashkafa can be summarized in once sentance- "Stay in my Yeshiva for the rest of your life; if you work for a living, you're going to hell." <BR/><BR/>The RY would constantly belittle "baal habatim". When pointed out that it was those evil baal habatim that financed his yeshiva, he said that God gave them money so that they could support yeshivas.<BR/><BR/>No hakoras hatov at all.Lawyer-Wearing-Yarmulkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12315731673185619309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-73640523569290858522008-07-03T10:09:00.000-04:002008-07-03T10:09:00.000-04:00I went to a Bais Yaakov (albeit "out-of-town") and...I went to a Bais Yaakov (albeit "out-of-town") and my friends applied to seminaries across the entire spectrum and I NEVER heard anything like this. OK, it wasn't exactly last year, but still... <BR/><BR/><I>RM - I think that's one of the scariest things. We're either headed for a large split within Orthodoxy, or something major has to happen.</I><BR/><BR/>Ezzie, totally agreed.SaraKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08053908720926177402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-16971762046966977102008-07-03T09:03:00.000-04:002008-07-03T09:03:00.000-04:00DAG - Why stop because of that, though?Baruch - Bu...DAG - Why stop because of that, though?<BR/><BR/>Baruch - <I>But at the same time, it seems there are some parents who would really be just that misinformed about the yeshivot their kids go to.</I><BR/><BR/>Very true, unfortunately. To some extent, they trust and rely on their children's high school Rabbeim and teachers to guide them to what's best for them, as they are more familiar with the schools - not realizing that the teachers may not have the parents or their children's best interests in mind, but rather a certain worldview*. Others rely on their children themselves, who seem to "know" (based on little more than name and perception, often) what's a "good" school and what's not.<BR/><BR/>* As a note, one of the things I especially liked about my own HS was the advice of the Rabbeim to students to go to places that were better for them rather than a certain "type" of yeshiva following graduation. (Of course they factored in things that they felt were important, but they were open about what those factors were.)Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-71703254788478879112008-07-03T08:54:00.000-04:002008-07-03T08:54:00.000-04:00Ezzie and Trilcat --I see I wasn't clear enough.I ...Ezzie and Trilcat --<BR/><BR/>I see I wasn't clear enough.<BR/><BR/>I do not disagree that some parents can and should send their kids to different yeshivot based on their character, etc. That's why I said "I wonder" as opposed to "I worry." While those parents are right to do what they do, there are other parents who send their kids to different yeshivot based on faulty information about the yeshivas. For example, I was talking to somebody about how she was sending her son to ToMo and all she seemed to know about the place was that it 1) was shtark and 2)had a good deal of connections to The Rav. Now, due to the short timespan of the conversation, I could be <I>dan lekav schus</I> that I very possibly misread her (and I wouldn't be surprised if I did). But at the same time, it seems there are some parents who would really be just that misinformed about the yeshivot their kids go to.Baruchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051421355654178857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-65102752126927148932008-07-03T08:52:00.000-04:002008-07-03T08:52:00.000-04:00I love that attitude of ridiculing the very consti...I love that attitude of ridiculing the very constituency that bankrolls their lifestyle! Where else do you see that (outside of government welfare)? Where else would such a system continue to function?<BR/><BR/>I stopped blogging because of intense pressure from people who did not like the fact that there are people who criticize the system….DAGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09475799835170867139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-26291451305283116232008-07-03T08:32:00.000-04:002008-07-03T08:32:00.000-04:00RM - I think that's one of the scariest things. We...RM - I think that's one of the scariest things. We're either headed for a large split within Orthodoxy, or something major has to happen.<BR/><BR/>M - Thank you; it's especially interesting to see things from the POV of someone in the Chassidish world, though it's been clear your views are not typical of that world... and we await the book. :)<BR/><BR/>~Sarah~ - I think the problems are often worse in larger cities, but it's interesting to see that they are worldwide.<BR/><BR/>NL - Amen, and well put.<BR/><BR/>Katrina - No, it does not seem sustainable; the latest calls sometimes ask grandparents to help "chip in" for their grandchild's tuition. It is NOT sustainable.<BR/><BR/>Baruch - Thank you.<BR/><BR/>I happen to disagree about sending to the different institutions; families that are able to do so are those that not only recognize the differences among their own children (chanoch l'na'ar al pi darko), but are also often the ones who have given their children the strongest overall backgrounds in how they view other hashkafos and one another. Brothers in ToMo and KBY are more likely to respect one another and their respective hashkafos than not.<BR/><BR/>Trilcat - Agreed.Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-61521618533468789022008-07-03T05:29:00.000-04:002008-07-03T05:29:00.000-04:00sorry - deleted my previous comment, b/c I wanted ...sorry - deleted my previous comment, b/c I wanted to fix something.<BR/><BR/>Baruch - maybe davka the parents are exactly right - their different sons are suited towards different hashkafas. If you have a child who is suited towards being a businessman, a lawyer, a doctor, etc, then it's a shame to not use the talent Hashem gave them by sending them to a yeshiva where they will be shunned for having a desire to do something other than learn full-time. Much better to send them to a yeshiva which supports that kind of lifestyle - instead of turning them off to learning, (which happens when certain things are shoved in an impressionable young man's face) it gives them the backbone to continue learning throughout their lives.<BR/>Just like you wouldn't send all of your children to medical school, regardless of their personalities, you need to choose a yeshiva that is going to give them the right backing and help to succeed on THEIR path.<BR/><BR/>There's a big problem with assuming that ideally every man's path should be identical. <BR/><BR/>In Tanach times, there were shepherds and vineyard people and orchard owners and wheat-growers. There weren't ONLY Torah scholars.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13326001.post-78935542180274869652008-07-03T05:26:00.000-04:002008-07-03T05:26:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.com